1 Monday, 29 January 2007
2 [Open session]
3 [The accused entered court]
4 --- Upon commencing at 2.15 p.m.
5 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Mr. Registrar, please call the
7 THE REGISTRAR: [Interpretation] Good afternoon, Mr. President.
8 Case IT-04-74-T, the Prosecutor versus Prlic et al.
9 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Thank you, Mr. Registrar. Today
10 is Monday, the 29th of January. My greetings to Mr. Mundis and
11 Ms. Gillett. I greet everybody in the courtroom, the Defence counsel, the
12 accused, and all the people working in and around the courtroom.
13 First of all, I'm going to give the floor to the registrar because
14 he's got some IC numbers.
15 THE REGISTRAR: The OTP has submitted a response to the objections
16 regarding OTP exhibits tendered through Witness Jeremy Bowen, which will
17 be IC 255. Several parties have submitted lists of documents to be
18 tendered through Witness Jovan Rajkov. The list submitted by the OTP
19 shall be given Exhibit number IC 256. The list submitted by 2D shall
20 given Exhibit number IC 257. The list submitted by 3D shall be given
21 Exhibit number IC 258. 3D has also submitted a list of objections to
22 documents tendered by the OTP through Witness Jovan Rajkov; that list
23 shall be given Exhibit number IC 259. Thank you.
24 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Thank you, Mr. Registrar. Can
25 we move to private session.
1 [Closed session]
11 Pages 13037-13043 redacted. Closed session
5 [Open session]
6 THE REGISTRAR: [Interpretation] We are in open session.
7 Examination by Ms. Gillett:
8 Q. Good afternoon, Witness.
9 A. Good afternoon.
10 Q. By way of background, where were you born?
11 A. I was born in Mostar.
12 Q. And did you always live in Mostar, or have you lived also where
14 A. I lived in Mostar until 1979 when we moved to Buna.
15 Q. And when you moved to Buna in 1979 and up until the time of the
16 war, what was the ethnic composition, the nationality of people living in
18 A. Most of them were Serbs, and the Muslims and Croats, there were an
19 equal number of them.
20 Q. Did you remain living in Buna?
21 A. No, but we have a house in Buna.
22 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Just a question on my part. How
23 far is Buna from Mostar in kilometres?
24 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] About 12 kilometres.
25 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] And the town, how many
1 inhabitants does it have, roughly?
2 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I can't really say.
3 MS. GILLETT:
4 Q. Witness, you said you didn't remain living in Buna. When did you
5 leave Buna and where did you go from there?
6 A. Can you repeat that question, please?
7 Q. Certainly. You told the Court that you started living in Buna in
8 1979, and I asked you whether you continued to live in Buna and you
9 answered no. The question is: When did you leave Buna?
10 A. We left Buna for the first time in May 1992, and then we returned
11 in August.
12 Q. Just to pause there. When you left in May, so from May until
13 August 1992, where were you living?
14 A. In Mostar.
15 Q. And where did you go after August 1992?
16 A. From August 1992 until 1993, July, we lived in Buna.
17 Q. And at that time who were you living with?
18 A. I was living with my parents and two brothers.
19 Q. How old were you in 1992?
20 A. In 1992 I was 16.
21 Q. Now, although as you've told us you were living in Buna from 1979
22 until May 1992, and you've also told the Judge the distance between Mostar
23 and Buna, did you have occasion to visit Mostar at all during the time you
24 were living in Buna?
25 A. Yes.
1 Q. Why did you go there?
2 A. Well, we had relatives in town, and we crossed from Buna to
4 Q. Was there any other reason that you would visit Mostar during that
5 period up until 1992?
6 A. I went to school.
7 Q. In April or May 1992, just before you left Buna, were you still
8 going to school at that time?
9 A. Can you repeat that question, please?
10 Q. Yes. In April or May 1992, were you still attending school in
12 A. No.
13 Q. Why was that?
14 A. In April in Mostar, I think it was the 4th of April, there was an
15 explosion when a cistern exploded and so there was no more school. A
16 water tank exploded.
17 Q. Now, you mention moving back to Mostar in May of 1992. Why did
18 you move from Buna to Mostar in May 1992?
19 A. The Serb army was at Buna, so we fled to Mostar.
20 Q. And once again you mentioned in August of 1992 going back to Buna
21 from Mostar. Why was that?
22 A. That was because the joint forces of the BH army and the HVO had
23 liberated Buna and it was free and we could return there.
24 Q. When you returned to Buna, was there any army presence in Buna at
25 that time?
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Which army?
3 A. The Croatian Defence Council.
4 Q. And at that time when you had returned to Buna, what nationalities
5 made up the HVO?
6 A. There were Muslims and Croats.
7 Q. Was there any other army in the area?
8 A. Not at Buna, no.
9 Q. What about outside Buna?
10 A. Around Buna there was the BH army too.
11 Q. What were relations between the HVO and the BiH army like at the
12 time when you went back to Buna?
13 A. As far as I know they were good.
14 Q. Did those relations between the two armies change?
15 A. In March 1993.
16 Q. What happened then?
17 A. At the end of March or the beginning of April, the HVO attacked
18 the barracks at Gubavica which is where the BH army was located, and all
19 the soldiers, all the BH army soldiers were taken to prison.
20 Q. Do you know which prison they were taken to?
21 A. I really can't remember now. I think it was either Gabela or
23 Q. Now, as far as your family are concerned, in June of 1993 did your
24 family have any contact with the HVO?
25 A. No.
1 Q. Did your family ever have any contact at all with the HVO?
2 A. What kind of contact do you mean?
3 Q. Did any HVO members come to your family home?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. And can you remember when that was?
6 A. Well, since our neighbours were in the HVO they came
8 Q. Did you ever have any problems with the HVO when they came to your
9 family home?
10 A. Until the 30th of June, no.
11 Q. And what happened on the 30th of June?
12 A. On the 30th of June HVO soldiers came to our family home. My
13 father was there, a neighbour who was also in the HVO, and my brothers, my
14 mother, and myself. They pointed a finger at my father, the neighbour,
15 and myself, gesturing that we should follow them. They said we would be
16 back soon after a brief questioning. Then my mother said that I was only
17 16 and begged them to leave me alone, which they did.
18 They took my father and our neighbour, however, and as I later
19 found out, they took them to the military police station and left them
20 outside where other able-bodied men from Buna were also brought.
21 Q. Now, just to pause there, how many HVO soldiers came to your home
22 on that day?
23 A. I think two -- three. One of them stayed in the car and two of
24 them got out.
25 Q. And can you remember what they were wearing?
1 A. They wore camouflage uniforms with HVO insignia.
2 Q. You've mentioned that your father and a neighbour went to the
3 military police station. First of all, where was this military police
5 A. That military police station was not far from our house, maybe a
6 hundred metres away, in a residential building.
7 Q. And you were just telling us that your father and neighbour were
8 taken there and were gathered in front of the military police station with
9 others. Did your father and the neighbour remain there or did they return
10 to the house?
11 A. They stayed there.
12 Q. And what happened to them?
13 A. Together with other able-bodied men they were put onto trucks and
14 taken to Dretelj.
15 Q. How do you know that that's what happened to them?
16 A. I didn't know then, but a couple of days later from talking to our
17 Croat neighbours we found out that they were in Dretelj and they were
18 treated well.
19 Q. Now, earlier you were telling us that you left Buna in July of
20 1993. Why did you leave Buna? What happened?
21 A. On the 14th of July, in the morning around 10.00 or 11.00,
22 military policemen of the HVO barged into our house. There were three of
23 them. One of them I believe came into our house and two stayed outside.
24 The first one pointed at my grandfather and myself asking us to identify
25 ourselves. We did. Then he asked who else was there in our house. We
1 said no one except for ourselves, our -- my mum, my brothers, and my
3 They asked us if there were any Muslim troops around, and we said,
4 of course, no.
5 Q. Now, these two or three that you mentioned came -- HVO that came
6 to your house, again can you describe what they were wearing?
7 A. They were wearing camouflage uniforms with the insignia of the
8 military police, HVO military police, on their sleeves.
9 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Witness, you are talking about
10 the insignia of the military police. How do you distinguish the insignia
11 of the military police?
12 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] On one shoulder you have the HVO
13 insignia and on the other shoulder there is a white emblem with a white
14 patch with VP on it.
15 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] And you're positive?
16 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes.
17 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] There's no confusion, no
18 dilemma? You are positive that the persons who came to your apartment had
19 this VP insignia on their shoulders?
20 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes.
21 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Wait a little. We have another
23 JUDGE MINDUA: [Interpretation] Did they come in a military truck
24 or in a military jeep or did they walk to your house?
25 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] They walked.
1 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] You said a moment ago that the
2 military police were in a building in Buna. Did you see that building
3 before? Was there a flag? Was there a sign, or was it just that
4 everybody was saying the military police were located there?
5 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I had seen that building before,
6 that house before. I knew to whom it belonged. And while the military
7 police was located there and our Croat neighbours were part of the
8 military police, we the children knew that the military police were
9 quartered there.
10 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] You said some of your Croat
11 neighbours were in the military police. Do you remember the names of
12 those Croat neighbours?
13 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I do. (redacted)
14 MS. GILLETT: Your Honour, I'm sore why to intervene. If the
15 witness is going to be mentioning names, it might be prudent to go into
16 private session perhaps.
17 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] You're perfectly right.
18 [Private session]
11 Pages 13052-13054 redacted. Private session
20 [Open session]
21 THE REGISTRAR: [Interpretation] We are in open session.
22 MS. GILLETT:
23 Q. And what was their response when you gave this reply?
24 A. They insisted that we tell them who from the Muslim army had been
25 to our house. We said, "No one."
1 Q. And what happened at that point?
2 A. At that point the soldiers took me and grandpa towards that
3 building of the military police about a hundred metres away.
4 Q. And what happened to you when you got to the building of the
5 military police?
6 A. When we got there, there was already a group of seven, eight
7 soldiers there. They made us lie down. They hit us, and they kept asking
8 the same questions. I said again no one had been to our house except that
9 soldier whose name I've mentioned. And then they said, "Call him."
10 The man came. They asked him, "Do you know these people?" He
11 said, "Yes." They asked, "Did you visit them?" He said, "Yes."
12 The soldiers that had brought us told us we could go home, and as
13 we walked 20 metres away from the building they called us back. I mean,
14 one of the soldiers who had brought us there.
15 When we returned to the building again there was no one save for
16 the three soldiers, and the soldier who identified us, who recognised us,
17 was not there. Then they took us to the basement of that building.
18 Q. Now, once again, when you first arrived at the military police
19 building, you mentioned there were seven or eight military police there.
20 Did you recognise any of these military police?
21 A. No.
22 Q. Now, you said that you were taken down to the basement. What
23 happened in the basement?
24 A. In the basement they handcuffed us and handcuffed us to each
25 other, back to back, and made us sit on a bucket. Maybe half an hour
1 later, a group of soldiers burst in. We had to keep our heads down as
2 they encircled us and began beating us.
3 Q. How many soldiers were there?
4 A. I couldn't tell you that. A group.
5 Q. Are you able to give an approximate idea as to how many soldiers,
6 whether it would have been 5, 10, 20?
7 A. Five, six.
8 Q. And were you able to see what -- how these soldiers were dressed,
9 what they were wearing?
10 A. What I could see were only boots and the camouflage uniform,
11 because as I said, we had to keep our heads down.
12 Q. Now, you mentioned that these --
13 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Witness, to the best of your
14 knowledge, because I wonder about the conduct of those soldiers who were
15 beating you, in your community in Buna or around were there any clashes
16 between the HVO and the ABiH, and would there have been any HVO soldiers
17 killed or injured, wounded by the ABiH? As far as you know, of course.
18 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Possibly, because there were
19 skirmishes in the vicinity and there were casualties.
20 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Around the 14th of July?
21 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] On the 13th of July.
22 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] And where exactly?
23 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I think at Gubavica, because I later
24 found out that saboteurs had come to Gubavica at the separation line
25 between Gubavica and Blagaj.
1 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] How many kilometres is Gubavica
2 from Buna?
3 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Maybe five, six.
4 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] So if I understood you well,
5 from all you know there were ABiH saboteurs who had undertaken certain
6 actions that had resulted in HVO losses on the 13th of July. Is that what
7 you're telling me?
8 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes.
9 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] The Prosecution should be asking
10 questions of that nature.
11 MS. GILLETT: Thank you, Your Honour. I'll bear that in mind.
12 Q. Witness, you described that you were being beaten in the basement.
13 What were you being beaten with?
14 A. The group that stormed in beat us with their fists and their
16 Q. And how long did this last?
17 A. Ten to 15 minutes.
18 Q. Then what happened?
19 A. Then they went outside and two soldiers returned a little later
20 on. They took my handcuffs off and there happened to be a piece of
21 electric wiring there. They told me to strip to the waist, and then one
22 of them hit me on the back about 20 times.
23 Q. And what about your grandfather? What was happening to him while
24 you were being beaten?
25 A. They weren't able to unlock the handcuffs from one of his hands
1 because they were very tightly shut. So they gave him the key to unlock
2 them himself, and during that time they were busy beating me.
3 Q. And how long did this beating last?
4 A. Well, about 20 blows.
5 Q. And what injuries did you sustain?
6 A. My back hurt me, my hands hurt me from the handcuffs. I didn't
7 feel anything. Couldn't feel anything but the pain.
8 Q. How long did you remain in the basement?
9 A. We remained in the basement until dusk, when it started getting
10 dark. That might have been 8.00 or 9.00.
11 Q. And do you recall what time you were taken into the basement?
12 A. At about 11.00.
13 Q. Now, what happened at dusk?
14 A. A soldier came in, took off our handcuffs -- or, rather, took
15 off my handcuffs first, took me outside into the yard in front of the
16 building where there was a sort of iron bed. He tied me to that, put a
17 bucket on my head, and as far as I was able to see from underneath the
18 bucket and could hear the voices, there seemed to be a group of soldiers
19 there laughing, and they were hitting me. Then in the meantime they
20 brought my grandfather there and they tied him up and put a bucket over
21 his head too.
22 Q. How long did this last?
23 A. Well, it lasted for about 10 minutes.
24 Q. And again, were you -- were you able to see what these soldiers
25 were wearing?
1 A. All I could see was their boots, nothing else.
2 Q. Do you know to which group these soldiers belonged?
3 A. I don't know which group, but I think it was the military police
4 because it was in that building.
5 Q. Do you know if there were any other groups that used that
7 A. As far as I know, no.
8 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Sir, a moment ago I saw you and
9 you were very tall. You were at least 1 metre 90. When you were 16, were
10 you that tall and well-built, or were you a little thinner then?
11 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] No. I was a lot thinner. I weighed
12 about 60 kilos.
13 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] And when you were beaten, did
14 your grandfather say anything to the soldiers or you? Did they -- did he
15 say that you were a child? Did you tell them that you were a child?
16 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Well, of course. We kept repeating
17 that again and again. And you could also see that judging by my build.
18 MS. GILLETT:
19 Q. Now, after this beating, what happened to you then, to you and
20 your grandfather?
21 A. They loaded us up into a van of some kind. There was a driver.
22 He was also a soldier. And a co-driver, and one man sat behind us. The
23 two of them had weapons. And they told us that they were taking us either
24 to Heliodrom or to Dretelj.
25 When they drove us off, they took the main road which you -- which
1 is the usual route to Dretelj, and somewhere at a distance of about 500
2 metres at Buna you come across the first tunnel. One of them said that
3 there was a by-lane after the tunnel and that the driver should pull up
5 They took us out and told us to turn our backs.
6 Q. Just pause for a moment. As they took you out and told you to
7 turn your backs, in which direction were you facing? What was in front of
9 A. In front of us was the Neretva River and a 15-metre drop, and we
10 were on the very edge of that precipice.
11 Q. In that area, are there any other buildings in the area?
12 A. On this side of the river, no, there was not, but on the opposite
13 side you could see houses.
14 Q. Are you able to describe approximately how far the other side of
15 the river was from where you and your grandfather were standing?
16 A. About 40 to 50 metres.
17 Q. Did all of the soldiers that were with you in the van get out of
18 the van or did some remain in the van?
19 A. I know that the two men who were armed got out. Whether the third
20 man got out or not, I don't know because we had our backs turned towards
22 Q. So what happened once you had turned your backs to these two
24 A. We heard the cocking of weapons and then a burst of gunfire. And
25 I felt a blow to my back, and from the blow I fell down into the abyss and
1 started rolling down the hill until I touched water with my legs. My
2 grandfather stopped a little further up, halfway down, because a tree had
3 blocked his fall.
4 I heard death throes, my grandfather's death throes. This might
5 have went on for a minute or so, and then you couldn't hear anything after
7 As I didn't hear that they had left and I was still conscious, I
8 didn't dare make a noise. I just lay there very quiet and still. Then I
9 heard the soldiers' voices, and I heard them coming down this precipice to
10 check to see whether we were actually dead.
11 They came down to my grandfather, and they laughed and looked
12 through his wallet, took his belt. And as I was lying at the bottom, I
13 saw a flashlight. I saw that they were searching for me with a
14 flashlight. And as I had fallen behind a bush, they weren't able to reach
15 me down there, and they said, "Well, that's it. It's over. This one's
16 dead too."
17 MS. GILLETT: Now, it might be prudent, Your Honour, if we might
18 pass briefly into private session. I need to show the witness a document.
19 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Yes, very well.
20 [Private session]
7 [Open session]
8 THE REGISTRAR: [Interpretation] We're in open session, Mr.
10 MS. GILLETT:
11 Q. Now, Witness, you were describing that you were lying down at the
12 bottom near the water and that the soldiers had come down looking for you
13 and had considered that you were also dead. Did the soldiers leave the
14 area at that point?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. Now, what condition were you in?
17 A. I felt pain. I was all bloody. I didn't know how many bullets
18 had hit me. All I know is that in my chest area everything hurt and that
19 I was bleeding from that area.
20 I took off my jacket and tried to wipe the wound to see where I
21 had been hit. There was blood coming out of the wound and air. I found
22 it difficult to breathe. So I pressed my jacket to my wound and found it
23 easier that way.
24 Q. Once you'd attended to that injury, what did you do?
25 A. Then slowly I made my way up the slope with a lot of pain, but
1 somehow crawling on my knees I managed to get to the top and reached the
2 place where they had shot at us.
3 I saw some lights. I saw some traffic lights, and I was afraid
4 again, so I hid. By the tunnel I saw a place where I thought I could
5 hide. I managed to crawl to the place, and that's when I lost
7 Q. Now, after you lost consciousness, when were you next aware of
8 what was going on around you?
9 A. I came to when I heard the sound of shooting from a cannon nearby
10 by the tunnel. That's when I regained consciousness and saw that the sun
11 was already high up in the sky and that it was fairly hot.
12 I stayed there for about half an hour, and then I was thirsty so I
13 went down to the river again to drink my fill. I kept pressing the jacket
14 to my wound.
15 When I set off towards the river, passing by the main road, two
16 cars turned up. One was an ambulance, and the other was a civilian van
17 with the Red Cross emblem on it. When they saw me all bloody like that,
18 they stopped and they immediately rushed out of the car. The people from
19 the van came out with a rifle because they didn't know who I was. They
20 asked me whether I was a sabotage, had anything to do with sabotage, and I
21 said, "No, I'm a civilian." And I said I had been shot there together
22 with my grandfather, that the HVO military police had shot us.
23 They didn't know what to do until the woman from the ambulance
24 said that I should be driven to Capljina.
25 Q. Now, do you know where these Red Cross people were from, what
1 nationality they were?
2 A. I don't know who they were.
3 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Just a moment. There seems to
4 be some confusion. Perhaps it's a result of the interpretation. There
5 seem to be two vehicles passing by, one an ambulance and the other a van.
6 And you said that when the people in these vehicles saw you in that
7 condition they came out straight away. And then on page -- on line 20 of
8 page 31, you said that they had a rifle.
9 Now, I don't understand. Can you be more specific? So if they
10 had a rifle, they must have been soldiers.
11 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] They were wearing camouflage
12 uniform, but they had the Red Cross emblem on their shoulders.
13 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] And they also had a rifle, did
15 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes.
16 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] And what about the woman? Was
17 she wearing camouflage uniform or civilian clothing?
18 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] She had on a camouflage uniform as
20 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Thank you.
21 MS. GILLETT:
22 Q. Are you able to say whether these persons from the Red Cross,
23 whether they were from Bosnia and Herzegovina or whether they were from
24 outside the country?
25 A. The woman, I think, was from Buna, as far as I was able to gather.
1 She sort of seemed familiar. Whereas the others, I don't know who they
3 Q. Now, you mentioned that the woman suggested you being taken to
4 Capljina. How long did you spend in Capljina?
5 A. In Capljina they stop the bleeding. They put me on an IV drip and
6 transported me in the ambulance to Metkovic.
7 Q. And where in Capljina were you treated?
8 A. I don't really know. It was a sort of outpatients' clinic or
9 dispensary or something like that.
10 Q. Now, the ambulance that took you to Metkovic, where did it take
11 you to exactly in Metkovic?
12 A. It was the war hospital in Metkovic, which is what I gathered from
13 what people said later on. Below the department store in Metkovici. It
14 was or the of a makeshift hospital in the basement.
15 Q. Was this war hospital, was it a civilian-run war hospital or
16 military run?
17 A. As far as the nurses are concerned, I didn't know whether they
18 were civilian or military doctors or what, because they were wearing white
19 coats. The patients were mostly soldiers, however.
20 Q. And soldiers of which nationality?
21 A. Croatian.
22 Q. And the nurses and the doctors that were treating you, which
23 nationality were they?
24 A. Also Croatian.
25 Q. What treatment did you receive when you were in the war hospital
1 in Metkovic?
2 A. They operated on me straight away and then took me back to a room
3 and put me in bed.
4 Q. And how long did you stay in Metkovic war hospital?
5 A. I stayed in Metkovic for two days until the situation worsened,
6 and then they transferred me to the hospital in Split.
7 Q. Just to pick up on that, when you say "until the situation
8 worsened," are you referring to your own health or something else?
9 A. My health.
10 Q. So you went to the Split hospital, and how long were you in the
11 hospital in Split?
12 A. I was at the Split hospital, in the intensive care unit for five
13 days, and then I was there for another seven days, I think.
14 Q. And what other patients were in the hospital in Split?
15 A. In Split there were other patients who were Croats who were
16 brought in from Central Bosnia, and they were in the room together with
17 me, lying in bed.
18 Q. Where did you go after your stay in Split hospital?
19 A. After my stay in the Split hospital I was supposed to leave the
20 hospital because my health situation had improved. However, I didn't have
21 anywhere to go. So the personnel in the hospital contacted the Merhamet
22 Split organisation to come and get me. They came to fetch me and
23 transported me to a hotel of some kind in Omis. It was a private hotel
24 paid for by the Igasa organisation. There were other people who had been
25 wounded there and treated there, Muslims, who before the conflict with the
1 Croats in Bosnia were brought into Croatia and treated there, so they
2 couldn't go back any more.
3 Q. Now, during this period when -- from when you and your grandfather
4 were taken away and shot and throughout the period of your convalescence,
5 what happened to the rest of your family, to your mother, your brothers,
6 and also your grandmother during that period?
7 A. When they took us away that day, several hours later the same
8 soldier who took us away came to my mother's house and laughed. She asked
9 where we were and what had happened to us, and he said that perhaps we
10 were in Capljina or perhaps in Dretelj.
11 Q. Do you know the name of this soldier?
12 A. Afterwards, from what people said --
13 THE ACCUSED PRALJAK: [Interpretation] We're in open session, Your
14 Honours, if you're going to name names.
15 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Yes. Let's move into private
17 [Private session]
11 Pages 13069-13075 redacted. Private session
15 [Open session]
16 THE REGISTRAR: [Interpretation] We are in open session now, Mr.
18 MS. ALABURIC: [Interpretation]
19 Q. You told us today that in June 1992, the area of Mostar and Buna
20 was liberated from the Serb army and that the HVO moved into the territory
21 of Buna, the HVO then consisting of the joint forces of Muslims and
22 Croats. Is that correct?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Muslim men from Buna were members of the HVO at the time, weren't
1 A. They were.
2 Q. Can you tell us how many Muslim men were in the HVO at the time?
3 A. I wouldn't know.
4 Q. Can you give us an order of magnitude? Dozens or perhaps
6 A. Dozens.
7 Q. Can we get an approximate number? How many dozens? Would it be
8 correct to say 120 or maybe around a hundred?
9 A. Possibly.
10 Q. Those Muslim men from Buna, did they continue in the HVO until the
11 end of the war or did something happen in the meantime?
12 A. They were disarmed before the 30th of June, prior to being taken
13 to Dretelj.
14 Q. Could you clarify that? Before the 30th of June? When were they
15 disarmed? Can you give us some names, describe the circumstances under
16 which they were disarmed?
17 A. Yes, I can.
18 Q. If you can, then we can perhaps move into private session.
19 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Private session.
20 [Private session]
11 Pages 13078-13090 redacted. Private session
25 [Open session]
1 THE REGISTRAR: We're in open session, Mr. President.
2 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] In open session I gave the floor
3 to the Prosecution for the brief summary under 92 ter of the Rules of
4 Procedure and Evidence.
5 MS. EGELS: Thank you, Your Honour.
6 Examination by Ms. Egels:
7 MS. EGELS: In 1993, the witness was a resident of West Mostar.
8 On 9 May 1993, members of the HVO military police came to her apartment
9 and searched for weapons. In the following few days, numerous HVO
10 soldiers came to the apartment pressuring her to move out.
11 On the 25th of May, 1993, the witness and her husband moved out of
12 their apartment to the village of Rastani.
13 In the early hours of the 24th of August, 1993, the HVO launched
14 an attack on Rastani which, until that date, had been under the control of
15 the ABiH. The witness went to a neighbour's house where she stayed with
16 other people from the village. Around midday, a group of HVO soldiers
17 surrounded the house, fired a smoke grenade into the house, and demanded
18 the occupants to surrender or they would set fire on the house. The
19 witness and the other occupants surrendered, and the HVO soldiers
20 separated the men from the women and children. One of the men held his
21 hands up to surrender, and the witness saw an HVO soldier shoot and kill
22 him. The same soldier ordered the witness and the others to be taken
23 behind the house and killed. One of those others was another man. He was
24 taken behind the house and was also shot and killed by the same HVO
25 soldier. The witness and others were then searched by the HVO soldiers,
1 and their valuables were stolen. The witness and others then fled by
2 crossing the river while the village was being shelled. They were shot at
3 from behind during the whole time they were running.
4 Q. Good afternoon, Witness CZ.
5 A. Good afternoon.
6 Q. Witness, you provided a written statement to the investigators of
7 the Office of the Prosecutor of the ICTY on the 1st of October, 1998; is
8 that correct?
9 A. That's correct.
10 Q. When you provided this statement, did you provide it freely? That
11 is, without coercion?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. When you provided that statement did you provide it truthfully?
14 A. Yes, I did.
15 Q. At the conclusion of that interview with the investigator was your
16 statement read back to you into the Bosnian language?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. Did you then sign the English statement?
19 A. I don't remember that.
20 MS. EGELS: Your Honour, could we go briefly into private session
21 so that we can show an exhibit to the witness, please?
22 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Yes. Private session, please.
23 MS. EGELS: Could the Witness --
24 [Private session]
11 Pages 13094-13030 redacted. Private session
21 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 6.58 p.m.,
22 to be reconvened on Tuesday, the 30th day
23 of January, 2007, at 9.00 a.m.