1 Monday, 15 March 2010
2 [Open session]
3 [The accused entered court]
4 [The Accused Praljak and Pusic not present]
5 --- Upon commencing at 2.18 p.m.
6 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Registrar, can you kindly call
7 the case, please.
8 THE REGISTRAR: Good afternoon, Your Honours. Good afternoon,
9 everyone in and around the courtroom.
10 This is case number IT-04-74-T, the Prosecutor versus
11 Prlic et al. Thank you, Your Honours.
12 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Thank you, Registrar.
13 Today is Monday, the 15th of March, 2010. I would, first of all,
14 like to greet the accused who are present in the courtroom. I have noted
15 that Mr. Pusic and Mr. Praljak are not present. I would like to greet
16 Defence counsel, all the representatives of the OTP, as well as all the
17 people assisting us.
18 I believe that the Registrar has an IC number to give us.
19 THE REGISTRAR: Yes, Your Honour.
20 The Coric Defence has submitted their list of documents tendered
21 through Witness Miroslav Desnica. This list shall be given
22 Exhibit IC01202. Thank you, Your Honours.
23 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Thank you, Registrar.
24 We shall bring the witness into the courtroom. But before that,
25 I need to hand down an oral decision which I shall read out slowly.
1 Oral decision ordering the Petkovic Defence a dead-line to file a
2 written submission on the admission of evidence pursuant to Guide-line 9
3 of the decision of the 24th of April, 2008.
4 At the hearing of 11th of March, 2010, the Petkovic Defence
5 stated, having finished the presentation of its case, and asked whether
6 the Trial Chamber could specify on what date the filing of a request to
7 admit the evidence. It is a decision of 8th of February, 2010. The
8 Trial Chamber had already asked the Petkovic Defence to disclose, in the
9 shortest time possible, a date on which it may perhaps file a written
10 motion pursuant to Guide-line 9 of decision rendered on the 24th of
11 April, 2008. In this oral decision, the Trial Chamber emphasised the
12 fact that whatever the case may be, these motions needed to be filed
13 before the end of the presentation of the Petkovic Defence's case.
14 At the hearing of 17th of February, 2010, the Petkovic Defence
15 had told the Trial Chamber that it would file such a written motion on
16 the last day of Milivoj Petkovic's testimony, i.e., at the time on the
17 1st of March, 2010, or that it would request an extension of the
18 dead-line to file such a motion.
19 In light of the dead-lines imposed by the Trial Chamber in its
20 oral decision of 8th of February, 2010, the Trial Chamber holds that this
21 application, filed by the Petkovic Defence, arrived rather late in time
22 and should have been filed before the end of its case. Therefore, the
23 Trial Chamber holds that only a short dead-line may be granted to the
24 Petkovic Defence to file a written motion pursuant to Guide-line 9 and,
25 therefore, orders the Petkovic Defence to file such a motion by the
1 22nd of March, 2010, at the latest.
2 In short, the Petkovic Defence must file its motion by the
3 22nd of March, 2010, to admit its evidence pursuant to Guide-line 9.
4 Have you understood, Ms. Alaburic?
5 [The witness entered court]
6 MS. ALABURIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, good afternoon.
7 Of course, I understand your decision, and we will be filing a
8 motion by that date. I thought that it was understood that we asked for
9 a fortnight from the time that the Petkovic Defence case ends, and I
10 apologise if there was a misunderstanding. But, yes, that time, a week,
11 will be sufficient. Thank you.
12 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Mr. Andabak, could you stand
13 up, please.
14 Could you give me your first name, last name, and date of birth,
16 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I am Zdenko Andabak, born on the
17 21st of November, 1968, in Livno.
18 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] What is your occupation
19 currently, sir?
20 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I am a retired colonel.
21 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Colonel, have you already
22 testified before a court of law, or is it the first time that you're
23 testifying today, on those facts that took place in the former
25 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I've never testified before. This
1 is the first time.
2 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Could you please read the text
3 of the solemn declaration.
4 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I solemnly declare that I will
5 speak the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
6 WITNESS: ZDENKO ANDABAK
7 [Witness answered through interpreter]
8 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Okay, Colonel, you may sit
10 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Thank you.
11 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Colonel, just some information
12 I'd like to share with you.
13 You are a witness of Mr. Valentin Coric's Defence. You will be
14 answering questions which will be put to you in a moment by Ms. Tomic,
15 who is Mr. Coric's lawyer, and she will show you documents contained in
16 the binder which you should have or which you will be given a little
17 later. Once those questions are finished, the other Defence counsel may
18 then also put questions to you as part of time allotted to them already,
19 and the Prosecutor, who's sitting on your right-hand side, will have two
20 hours to cross-examine you. If need be, Ms. Tomic will be entitled to
21 put extra questions to you.
22 The three Judges sitting before you - we are four Judges
23 normally; that is not the case today - may at any time put questions to
24 you. Usually, these are questions designed to clarify the contents of
25 those documents we have before us.
1 Try and be as accurate as you possibly can when you answer. If
2 there is a question you don't understand, please don't hesitate to ask
3 the person who has put it to you to rephrase it, even if it is a Judge.
4 You are now a witness of the Court, since you have taken the
5 solemn declaration. You will be testifying until Thursday. That said,
6 there will be no hearing tomorrow. Until Thursday, you must not contact
7 Mr. Valentin Coric's Defence.
8 We have a break -- a 20-minute break every hour and a half so
9 that you can have a break and that we can change our tapes. If for any
10 particular reason you wish to stop, raise your hand and we will then have
11 a break. You will soon realise that it is extremely exhausting to answer
12 questions at length by questions put to you by counsel, Prosecutors and
13 Judges. So far, everyone has managed to cope with this without any
14 problems whatsoever, which I hope you will be able to do also.
15 This is what I wanted to share with you so that this hearing
16 unfolds in the best conditions possible. We all have the establishment
17 of the truth in mind.
18 Ms. Coric [as interpreted], you have the floor.
19 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation] Good afternoon,
20 Your Honours. Good afternoon to everybody in the courtroom.
21 Examination by Ms. Tomasegovic Tomic
22 Q. [Interpretation] Good afternoon to you too, Mr. Andabak.
23 A. Good afternoon.
24 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation] May the witness be
25 provided with the binder and the documents. And with the Trial Chamber's
1 permission, I'd like to ask some leading questions to begin with - the
2 Prosecution does not object - linked to the witness's career in the HVO
3 and afterwards.
4 Q. Mr. Andabak, I'm going to read out a brief CV listing your
5 positions in the HVO. And having done that, I'm going to ask you whether
6 that is correct.
7 In May 1992, you became commander of a company of the military
8 police, attached to the Brigade of the Municipal Staff of the HVO of
9 Livno, and you remained in that post until the 1st of July, 1992, when
10 you became commander of the military police in the operative group called
11 North-East Herzegovina
12 November, 1992, when you became commander of the 2nd Battalion of the
13 Military Police, staying in that position until 1993, when you became
14 chief of the traffic police -- general and traffic police. And you
15 remained in that post until the 28th of June, 1993, when you became
16 assistant head of the Military Police Administration for the
17 North-East Herzegovina Operative Zone. And you remained in that post
18 until the end of November 1993, when you once again became commander of
19 the 2nd Military Police Battalion. In March 1994, you were appointed
20 chief of the general military police in the Military Police
21 Administration of the HVO, and from the military police of the HVO you
22 left on the 30th of June, 1994, to join the MUP, and you remained there
23 until 2001, when you joined the Armed Forces of the Army of the
24 Federation of Bosnia-Herzegovina, in the Command for Training and
25 Doctrine. And you remained there until November 2007, when you retired
1 with the rank of colonel in the Armed Forces of Bosnia-Herzegovina, from
2 the post of commander, the Centre for Combat Simulation, attached to the
3 Command for Training and Doctrine in Banja Luka.
4 Is that all correct? Everything that I've read out, is it
6 A. Yes, everything that you've just read out is correct.
7 Q. To start off with now, linked to your CV, I would like us to look
8 at a few documents, and they are in the order in which I shall be asking
9 you about them. I'm going to ask you whether the documents refer to your
10 CV and the various appointments that we just listed.
11 In order to do that, look at PD02164 [as interpreted] first,
12 please. 5D is the number, 5D2164, 02164. The next document is P00803
13 and then P01460, P02230, P02963, P02996, and, finally, 5D05084.
14 Mr. Andabak, are those all documents which relate to the
15 biographical data I presented earlier on?
16 A. Yes, those are the documents.
17 Q. Tell us now, please, Mr. Andabak, in 1992 did a provision exist
18 regulating the military police organisation, control and command of the
19 military police, and the remit and tasks of the military police?
20 A. As far as I remember, from April 1992 there were rules and
21 regulations governing the establishment of the military police, signed by
22 the president, Mate Boban.
23 Q. Now look at the document P00143, please.
24 Have you found the document?
25 A. Yes.
1 Q. Will you tell the Court what document this is? What is it?
2 A. It is provisional instructions for the work of the military
3 police units of the Croatian Defence Council in the Croatian Community of
4 Herceg-Bosna, and they are instructions for the work of the military
6 Q. Tell me, please, Mr. Andabak, were you acquainted with these
8 A. Yes, I was, and so were the officers from the military police
9 subordinate to me.
10 Q. Tell me, please, Mr. Andabak, according to these instructions,
11 how was the military police organised?
12 A. In April 1992, the military police was organised on the basis of
13 municipal staffs of the HVO, which meant that members of the military
14 police were within the local brigades and their headquarters acting in a
15 given area.
16 Q. Now, with these instructions, did they regulate the relationships
17 between the Military Police Administration and the military police on the
19 A. Yes, these instructions did regulate that relationship, and the
20 military police had the duty of waging cadres policy on the ground; that
21 is to say, appointments, dismissals, disciplinary measures, and so on and
22 so forth. And it was there to see to the equipment, and uniforms, and
23 professional training for the military police.
24 Q. Tell me, please, Mr. Andabak, in that year, 1992, how was command
25 of the military police regulated? Who commanded the military police, in
1 actual fact? Who was in command? Who was your commander?
2 A. At that time in 1992, command of the military police was carried
3 out through the brigade command in the area where the military police was
5 Q. Mr. Andabak, take a look at the next document, please.
6 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] One moment, please, Colonel.
7 Your answer lies at the heart of the issue here, the police and
8 the military brigade. I would like you to look at number 4 of the
9 document we have before us on page 0040 [as interpreted], 737 in the
10 English version. Let me state the number again, 40, 737, 737. Look at
11 number 4.
12 In the English as we have it on the screen, it begins with: "All
13 military police units ...," under item 4. And in your language, I would
14 be incapable of telling you what it says. It must be, I believe, under
15 item 4 also in your language. What does this mean, this here? What is
16 the exact meaning of this?
17 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] This means that the commander -- a
18 commander of an OG is also in command of the military police, in
19 operative terms, in the field. Since military police units were attached
20 to the brigades of the municipal headquarters of the HVO, that means that
21 the OG commander was the factual commander of the military police. But
22 at that moment, the military police units in the field were subordinate
23 to the brigades.
24 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] So you are saying that the
25 military police is subordinated to the brigade; is that right? That is
1 on line 21 of page 9. That was my question for you.
2 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes, thank you.
3 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation]
4 Q. Mr. Andabak, in order to clarify the meaning of "operative
5 command," tell us, please, whether that means operative command in combat
6 or in general terms. What is the precise explanation for the term
7 "operative command"?
8 A. "Operative command" means to carry out all daily policing jobs,
9 extraordinary tasks, and combat tasks in an area of responsibility.
10 Q. And now please look at the following document, which is P008 --
11 JUDGE TRECHSEL: Excuse me.
12 I think if we want to be complete, we should also look at
13 paragraph 5, the next one, in the same document, which says, and I quote:
14 "The commanders of smaller units shall be held responsible for
15 their work and for carrying out their tasks to the commander of the
16 military police battalion, who, in turn, shall be responsible to the
17 Military Police Administration."
18 If one looks at these two, one gets the impression that there is
19 a double chain of responsibility, one within the military command that
20 would go up to the supreme military commander, and the other one to the
21 Military Police Administration, and I think it would be helpful if you
22 could explain to the Chamber the difference, what characterises one or
23 the other.
24 Now, it is possible, Ms. Tomasegovic Tomic, that you have this
25 question somewhere in your list, and in that case I would just have it on
1 record and wait until it fits into your plan.
2 I see that you are nodding. So, Witness, you are at this moment
3 relieved of answering my question, because it will come from your
4 counsel. Thank you.
5 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, I don't see
6 an obstacle for the witness to answer. It was very much in line with our
7 plan, anyway, so he can explain.
8 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] It is true that commanders were
9 subordinated to the units of the military police, in my operative zone
10 were responsible to me and answerable to me, but I, in turn, was
11 answerable to -- for reporting to the Administration of the Military
12 Police by means of daily report and inform them about the activities of
13 the military police in my field, i.e., in the field of the OG.
14 JUDGE TRECHSEL: I let you go on, Ms. Tomasegovic Tomic, because
15 you're probably aware of the fact that this does not exhaust the problem,
16 but I do not want to interfere excessively with your own work.
17 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation] And now let's look at
19 Q. Are you familiar with this document? This is another instruction
20 for the work of military police units, dating back to the month of
21 November 1992. Are you acquainted with this document?
22 A. Yes, I am familiar with the instructions.
23 Q. Mr. Andabak, when it comes to this instruction, did anything
24 change, in practical terms, in the field, in terms of the organisation
25 and command and control of the military police?
1 A. No, as a matter of fact, nothing changed. The military police
2 companies were united, but in terms of the system of control and command,
3 nothing changed. The administration still had the same authorities and
4 competencies, and I, as the commander of that military -- of that
5 battalion, was subordinated to the military commander in the area where I
6 was active.
7 Q. Mr. Andabak, you've just told us about operative command, and you
8 said that your operative commander was the commander of the OG or the
9 operative zone. Did you also receive orders from the Military Police
10 administration, and if you did, what kind of orders those were?
11 A. We received orders from the Military Police Administration as
12 well. Those were in form of regulations and instructions about, for
13 example, blockades or, for example, if we were to carry out an escort
14 duty for military vehicles or transports, if we were to protect foreign
15 officials, and if that was to be done by the military police, those were
16 the kind of orders we received, but those were very few and far between.
17 Q. Mr. Andabak, who did you report to about your work? Who were you
18 answerable to you, in practical terms, in the field? Could you describe
19 the situation for us?
20 A. I was the commander of the 2nd Battalion of the Military Police
21 in the North-West Herzegovina OG, and I was under the command of the OG
22 North-West Herzegovina or, rather, OZ, not Herzegovina, whose commander
23 was Zeljko Siljeg, headquartered in Tomislavgrad.
24 Q. I'm going to give you an example. For example, you refused to
25 carry out Mr. Siljeg's order, you don't carry that order out, or you do
1 something which you are not supposed to do or you're not allowed to do.
2 What will happen to you? Whose duty will it be to deal with your
3 omission or your breach of discipline?
4 A. The commander of the operations zone will certainly file the
5 report against me to the Main Staff, and then the Main Staff will inform
6 the Military Police Administration, because the Military Police
7 Administration appointed me as a battalion commander, and there will
8 probably be disciplinary proceedings against me or a criminal report if I
9 committed a crime. So it will be either the commander of the operative
10 zone or his assistant for security.
11 Q. Thank you very much. Mr. Andabak, let's look at the following
12 document. And while you are looking for it, let me say that this is
14 Have you got it?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. And can you describe the document for us?
17 A. Yes, I've got the document, and the document is the organisation
18 of the HVO in late 1992, and that was in effect as of the 1st of January,
20 Q. Mr. Andabak, according to this organisation scheme, how was the
21 military police of the HVO organised and how was the situation on the
22 ground, in factual terms?
23 A. According to that organisation, in addition to the
24 Military Police Administration there were also five military police
25 battalions of which the first one was an active battalion, and it was
1 under the direct command of the Military Police Administration. A
2 novelty in this organisation was that that battalion was active in the
3 entire territory of the HZ-HB.
4 Q. What does it mean when you say that it was under the direct
5 command of the Military Police Administration?
6 A. That means that the chief of the Military Police Administration
7 could send that battalion to any region pursuant to an order of the
8 Main Staff of the HVO.
9 Q. Mr. Andabak, when that first active battalion arrived in a region
10 pursuant to such an order, who was its commander, under whose command was
12 A. If that first active battalion was to report to the OZ North-West
14 would report to me. I would be responsible to receive that battalion,
15 and the orders and sending them to carry out a regular task or a combat
16 task was something that the commander of the OZ North-West Herzegovina
17 would give them if they arrived in our territory.
18 Q. Now, Mr. Andabak, let's look at the second page in the Croatian
19 version. In English, it's also page 2, towards the bottom of the page.
20 At the beginning of the second page, if you look at it, you will see
21 reference made to the 2nd Battalion, headquartered in Tomislavgrad, and
22 covering the OZ North-West Herzegovina
23 you have just been telling us about and whose commander you were?
24 A. Yes, that's the battalion, but its headquarters were not in
25 Tomislavgrad but in Livno. That was the change that was effected. And
1 Livno is also in that same OZ.
2 Q. Mr. Andabak, how was your battalion made up? What did it consist
4 A. My battalion was made up of the Command, the Crime Department,
5 the Communications Department, and three detachments of the military
6 police, and also Operative Duty Service.
7 Q. Mr. Andabak, I can see here in the first sentence a reference
8 being made to six brigade platoons of the military police, and somewhat
9 further down in this same paragraph it says that there are six
10 independent brigade platoons of the military police in the battalion.
11 They were also on the strength of the brigades in the
12 North-West Herzegovina OZ. Could you please explain to the Trial Chamber
13 how come that it says first that they were on your strength and then
14 later on it says that they were on the strength of the brigades? Can you
15 explain that for us and tell us how it actually was in the field?
16 A. Since the organisation applied to the whole strength of the
17 military police, and those six brigade platoons were deployed in the OZ,
18 where the 2nd Battalion of the Military Police was also deployed, that's
19 why they are listed here. The 2nd Battalion of the Military Police had
20 nothing whatsoever to do with the brigade platoons. And as you will see
21 further on, they were on the strength of their respective brigades and
22 they were responsible to them and answerable for them for their work.
23 Q. Mr. Andabak, in 1993, after this organisation came into effect,
24 who was your operative commander?
25 A. As I have already said it before, I'm repeating it again. My
1 operative commander was the OZ North-West Herzegovina, where I was
2 deployed and where I was active.
3 Q. Let's look at the following document, Mr. Andabak, which is
4 P00960. The title of the document is "Instructions on the Implementation
5 of the New Organisational Scheme of the Military Police Units." The
6 document was issued in December 1992. On page 2 in the Croatian version,
7 and also in the English version, it says that:
8 "We propose that commissions be set up consisting of the
9 following members, for the purpose of the reorganisation of VP units."
10 And then it says for the battalions, the president of the
11 commission, the commander, and other members are mentioned; the commander
12 of the OZ, an officer from the Military Police Administration. And a few
13 paragraphs later, it says that the appointment of officers and commanders
14 shall be carried out in keeping with the decision on the internal
15 organisation of the Defence Department after the 10th of January, 1993
16 Until that moment, commissions from each OZ have to submit their
17 co-ordinated proposals for the command and officers' positions in the OZ.
18 Tell me, Mr. Andabak -- we see that the commander of the military
19 police battalion is mentioned as the chairman of the commission, and you
20 say that you were the commander of the MP battalion. Do you remember
21 this, and was this ever implemented, the instructions that we have just
22 read out in this document?
23 A. I remember this document. This was implemented as is stated in
24 the order.
25 Q. And now let's look at the following document in your binder,
1 which is PD00538 [as interpreted] -- 5D00538. These are the minutes from
2 the co-ordination with the commanders in the North-West Herzegovina OZ,
3 dated 9th of March, 1993. Mr. Andabak, were you present during this
4 co-ordination meeting, and in what capacity, if you were?
5 A. I attended the meeting in the OZ in Tomislavgrad as the chief of
6 general and traffic police, which means that I represented the
7 MP Administration.
8 Q. Could you please tell us what you discussed at the meeting and
9 why you attended the meeting?
10 A. As can be seen from the document, the first item was organisation
11 and tasks of the military police, and the commander of the operative zone
12 wanted to take advantage of this opportunity to inform all the commanders
13 that he was in command of any OZ about the establishment of the military
14 police, its organisation, from the beginning of 1993.
15 Q. Fine, Mr. Andabak. We can move on to the next document, which is
16 P03000. This is a document entitled "Information" about changes in the
17 military police establishment, dated the 28th of June, 1993
18 whether you knew about these changes in establishment and organisation?
19 And if so, what changes took place?
20 A. I did know about this organisation and notification. As the
21 result of the escalation of the Croatian-Bosnian conflict, light assault
22 brigades were established, battalions, for each operative zone in the
23 HZ-HB. And in addition to the light assault battalions, we also had the
24 active-duty military police battalions working in the individual zones.
25 And another innovation was that assistant commanders, or, rather, heads
1 of the military police commanders for the operative zones were appointed.
2 Q. Tell me, please, Mr. Andabak, it says here -- well, when I read
3 out your CV, as far as I remember, you were assistant head of the --
4 assistant head at the time?
5 A. Yes, I was.
6 Q. It says here, at the end of that page:
7 "Joining up the military police activities of the light assault
8 battalion and the BP Battalion within the corresponding operations zone
9 shall be conducted by the assistant head of the Military Police
10 Administration responsible for that zone, who is also authorised to
11 command the battalions."
12 Tell us what that means. What was your job as assistant chief?
13 A. I was a co-ordinator between the 2nd Light Assault Military
14 Police Battalion and the 6th Battalion, when it came to commanding, so I
15 was -- the commander of the operative zone issued assignments to me for
16 the military police in the operative zone, and I would convey this to the
17 light assault battalion, pass it on, and the command of the 6th Light
18 Assault Battalion.
19 Q. Tell me, please, Mr. Andabak, as commander of a battalion,
20 throughout your career in the military police did you attend any meetings
21 at the level of the Military Police Administration?
22 A. Well, according to our monthly plan and programme, we had one
23 meeting a month with the Military Police Administration, that is to say,
24 the chief of the Military Police Administration, and the chief of the
25 General and Traffic Department, and so on.
1 Q. And what would you discuss at those meetings?
2 A. We mostly analysed reports from the previous month and decided
3 upon the activities we would undertake in the forthcoming period, with
4 the conclusions made -- that is to say, we made conclusions as to who
5 would do what. And among other things, we also discussed the problem of
6 the military -- the problems that the military police encountered on the
7 ground. We discussed logistics for the military police, care of the
8 wounded members of the military police, as well as assistance to families
9 of killed policemen.
10 Q. Would you now take a look at document P08 -- P0869 [as
11 interpreted], and tell the Court -- P05869 is the document number. Could
12 you tell the Court what document this is, just briefly? Do you recognise
13 it, and what is it about?
14 A. I recognise the document. It's an excerpt from the minutes of
15 one of our monthly meetings, regular monthly meetings.
16 Q. Thank you. Now look at the next document, which is P04947, and
17 I'm going to ask you the same question. Are you familiar and do you
18 recognise this document? Do you know what it's about?
19 A. Yes, it's the same document with another date or, rather, a
20 meeting held in a different month.
21 Q. Thank you, Mr. Andabak. Let's move on to the next document.
22 P00781 is the number, and this is a document from the commander of the
23 Operative Zone of North-West Herzegovina
24 establishment of commands for the North-East Herzegovina Operative Zone.
25 It says here that within the establishment system of the
1 North-West Herzegovina area, the following units are included. And under
2 number 9, it says:
3 "The 2nd Military Police Battalion - Livno."
4 Tell us, Mr. Andabak, the 2nd Military Police Battalion of Livno,
5 was it within the establishment of this or not? And if it was, what does
6 that mean, that it was part of the establishment or organisation?
7 A. Yes, the 2nd Military Police Battalion in the operative zone was
8 within the composition of the operative zone, as it says here. And as
9 I've already said before, I was re-subordinated to the commander of the
10 operative zone in carrying out my tasks and assignments.
11 Q. Mr. Andabak, a few minutes ago you told us that the brigade
12 platoons of the military police were within the composition of the
13 brigades. Tell us now, please, who appointed commanders to the brigade
14 platoons of the military police in your operative zone?
15 A. In North-West Herzegovina
16 the brigade military police was appointed -- were appointed by the
17 commander of the brigade, and he could also dismiss them if they failed
18 to carry out their assignments.
19 Q. Did you, yourself, appoint anyone from the Military Police
21 THE INTERPRETER: Could counsel repeat that question, please?
22 Could counsel repeat her question?
23 THE WITNESS: [No interpretation]
24 JUDGE PRANDLER: The translators ask you to repeat your
25 questions, please. Thank you.
1 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation]
2 Q. My question was as follows, and I repeat: Did you, or anybody
3 else from the Military Police Administration, appoint a commander of a
4 platoon belonging to the brigade military police in the Operative Zone of
5 North-West Herzegovina?
6 A. I don't know. I didn't, I didn't appoint anyone, and I also know
7 that the Military Police Administration didn't appoint commanders of the
8 brigade military police.
9 Q. Now, Mr. Andabak, would you take a look at document P0 --
10 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Colonel, I look at this
11 document, P00781. The good thing about this document is that we can see
12 that the 2nd Military Police Battalion reports to the commander of the
13 operative zone; namely, Colonel Siljeg. This is written in black and
14 white. I will give you an example just for argument's sake.
15 If Colonel Siljeg told you that you had to strengthen the
16 Eugen Kvaternik Brigade in Bugojno, would you abide by this order or
17 would you ask Valentin Coric for his authorisation?
18 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Your Honour, from other
19 organisational units of the military police which are located in the OZ
20 of North-West Herzegovina
21 platoon or company, depending on what I had been ordered by the commander
22 of the OZ, and I would send that unit to the Eugen Kvaternik Brigade to
23 carry out its tasks, and they there would be under the command of the
24 commander of the Eugen Kvaternik Brigade.
25 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well. So you're saying
1 that you would have appointed a platoon or a company to strengthen the
2 Eugen Kvaternik Brigade. But while taking this decision, would you have,
3 yourself, asked Valentin Coric for his green light or his authorisation,
4 or could you decide on your own accord? Was it part of your own
6 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Your Honour, I would inform in
7 writing Mr. Coric about the deployment of the military police. But since
8 the military police battalion has its platoons and companies within the
9 operative zone, it wasn't necessary for us to be given reinforcements
10 based on an order from Valentin Coric, except if another military police
11 unit was coming in with -- or, rather, from another operative zone.
12 Then, via the Main Staff, Valentin Coric would receive an order to send
13 the military police to another operative zone.
14 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well. One last question.
15 You decide to send a company to Bugojno in order to strengthen
16 the Eugen Kvaternik Brigade. Once this company arrives in Bugojno, will
17 it be under the exclusive and total command and the commander of the
18 Eugen Kvaternik Brigade?
19 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes, it would be under the command
20 of the brigade, which would then issue it its tasks.
21 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well, thank you.
22 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation]
23 Q. Mr. Andabak, look at the next document, P04413. It's a warning
24 signed by Mr. Govorusic. Tell me, first, do you know who Mr. Govorusic
25 was and what position he held in August of 1993, when he issued this
2 A. Mr. Ante Govorusic was the deputy commander of the OZ of
3 North-West Herzegovina.
4 Q. Tell me, please, did the you take on board this warning?
5 A. Yes, we did receive this warning.
6 Q. In this warning, it says that it follows a warning from the
7 Main Staff, and it says that the brigade military police, under direct
8 command of the brigade commanders, that it exists in the brigade's
9 formations and has the status just as other brigade units. It says that
10 the selection of men is carried out from the military composition of the
11 brigade and that it is the commander's right to replace any military
12 policeman. And then it goes on to say that the chief of the military
13 police can be asked for professional assistance. And it goes on to say
14 that the problems in the brigade police are resolved through the system
15 of control and command.
16 Now, Mr. Andabak, you've already told us something about this,
17 but were you aware of the functioning of the brigade military police in
18 this way, and is that how it functioned in the North-West Herzegovina OZ?
19 A. The brigade military police was under the direct command of the
20 brigade commander, and that was what it was like in the
21 North-West Herzegovina OZ, and the men -- the manpower was also from the
22 brigade. And as far as the Military Police Administration is concerned,
23 it was duty-bound, logistically, to ensure military police equipment and
24 professional training for brigade military policemen.
25 In item 3 here, it says that the chief of the military police can
1 only be asked -- can be asked only for professional assistance, which
2 means that if they needed some rules and regulations governing their work
3 at the entrance gate, for example, or rules and regulations about the
4 various check-points manned by three men, well, that's the kind of
5 professional assistance that was being sought.
6 Q. Can you tell us who and in what way asked for professional
7 assistance? And do you know of any such cases, in practice, when
8 professional assistance was requested? And if so, what happened?
9 A. Professional assistance was sought by the brigade commander,
10 either through the OZ commander or through me, as the battalion
11 commander. It usually went through the commander of the operative zone.
12 Q. Very well. Mr. Andabak, let's skip the next document and go
13 to --
14 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Colonel, on the basis of this
15 document, once again, because in a few months' time this trial will be
16 finished, so we must really be clear about the documents. If the
17 commander of the Kresimir IV Brigade says or tells his company of
18 military policemen that they will not control the check-points because
19 there is no point in that, however, You must place yourselves on the
20 front-line because I need you there, that is where you will be much more
21 useful, at that point in time you, as the commander of the battalion, can
22 you object to that or does that -- is that solely part of the remit of
23 the commander of the Kresimir IV Brigade?
24 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Your Honour, that was within the
25 remit of the Petar Kresimir IV Brigade, and he was in command of the
1 brigade military police. In case he issued such an order, he could
2 request from the commander of the operative zone -- if he needed military
3 police for the check-points, he could request assistance from the active
4 battalion of the military police and ask them to control the
6 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Is that the reason why, in
7 small (a) in this document, which stems from Ante Govorusic, it states
8 that the military police has the same status as the other units of the
9 brigade? Is that why that one gives reason to believe that there is only
10 one chain of command and the person who exercises the supreme authority
11 at the level of the brigade is a brigade commander? Is that why it says
12 here that these units have the same status as the other units?
13 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Your Honour, that's correct. The
14 military platoon -- the brigade platoon of the military police was on the
15 strength of brigade, and it had enjoyed the same status as the other
16 platoons of the same brigade.
17 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Ms. Tomic.
18 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation] And now I'm skipping a
19 document, and let's look at P00900 [as interpreted].
20 Q. While you're looking for the document, what you have just told us
21 about the North-West Herzegovina OZ and the command and the status of the
22 military police, according to what you know, did it function in the same
23 way in the other operative zones?
24 P00900 [as interpreted].
25 A. All operative zones in the Croatian Community of Herceg-Bosna
1 acted in the same way.
2 Q. Very well. The following document is P00990.
3 JUDGE TRECHSEL: The transcript lists the document as "P00900."
4 That's what you've said. Isn't it the document P00990?
5 I see you are nodding. Thank you.
6 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, yes, and I
7 corrected myself on page 26, line 1, but it was being recorded just as
8 you were the putting your question about the document. So, yes, it is
9 the document, P00990.
10 Q. This is an order issued by the brigade commander. The brigade is
11 Stjepan Radic. Tell me, please, where was the Stjepan Radic Brigade
12 deployed, in which operative zone?
13 A. The aforementioned brigade was within the Operative Zone of
14 South-East Herzegovina
15 Q. Thank you very much, Mr. Andabak. We are moving very slowly. I
16 did ask you before your testimony to make breaks, but your breaks are a
17 bit too long. Please count to 10 after I've finished and then start
18 answering. Usually, we have a problem with the breaks being too short,
19 and now they are too long.
20 And now could you please look at the order, and could you please
21 provide your short comment with regard to what has been discussed so far?
22 A. This order was issued by the brigade commander in 1993. As far
23 as I can see, the order was created in the North-West Herzegovina
24 Operations Zone IZM or Forward Command Post Pidris. The brigade
25 commander here acted pursuant to his authorities.
1 Q. Thank you very much, Mr. Andabak.
2 Can we please look at the following document, which is P01099.
3 This is a schematic of the brigade organisation, and you will see the
4 schematic on page 2 of the document. Could you please tell us -- I have
5 actually two questions about the schematic. The first question is this:
6 Does the schematic reflect the situation as you knew it at the time with
7 regard to the composition of the brigades in your operations zone?
8 That's my first question. And the second question is this: What's the
9 Protection Platoon's purpose, and what is the purpose of the MP Platoon?
10 What are their roles?
11 A. The document reflects the organisation structure of the brigade
12 and its establishment. The MP Platoon is here to provide security for
13 the brigade command, to control the entry and exit points in the
14 battle-field, to bring back deserters pursuant to the commander's orders,
15 whereas the Protection Platoon acts in combat and moves with the
16 commander and his headquarters.
17 Q. And now, Mr. Andabak, could you just briefly look at that table
18 which follows, actually the following few pages, and could you please
19 tell us what the table represents?
20 A. This table, as far as I can see, shows the personnel composition
21 in the brigade, and here I can see the command and the headquarters of
22 the brigade with their personnels.
23 Q. Mr. Andabak, in the table that we are looking at there are no
24 platoons, battalions, detachments, that we were able to see in the
25 previous schematic. How come? Why are they missing?
1 A. This is probably just an excerpt showing just the command and the
2 headquarters and no affiliated units. This is just an excerpt from the
3 overall organisation.
4 Q. Can you please tell me what affiliated units are? We have five
5 battalions here, we have the Signals Platoon, the Reconnaissance Platoon,
6 the MP Platoon. What are affiliated units? Are you saying that they are
7 not on the strength of the brigade or what?
8 A. They were on the strength of the brigade. They were its
10 Q. And now look at P04293.
11 JUDGE TRECHSEL: If I may just ask a question as to this list of
13 To me, it looks like these persons being the members of the
14 staff, full stop, whereas the platoon is an instrument of the staff. The
15 platoon is not a member of the staff, but an instrument used by the
17 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes, here you see the commander and
18 his staff, but if you look at the detail, then you could see the
19 elaboration of the personnel, the platoons, how many men, ranks, and so
20 on and so forth.
21 JUDGE TRECHSEL: It looks a bit strange. The commander, one
22 person, would have 380 vehicles?
23 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I would not be able to comment the
25 JUDGE TRECHSEL: Would you agree that this table is not entirely
1 convincing as a document, at least not self-evident, as you, yourself,
2 seem to have doubts?
3 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Well, when it comes to logistics
4 and the number of vehicles, yes, it's a bit strange, but the rest is all
6 JUDGE TRECHSEL: Thank you.
7 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation] I believe that there has
8 been a mistake in the interpretation of your answer. To clarify things,
9 I'll put the question again.
10 Q. You said if we were to look at the details, this table does not
11 contain personnel, platoons, if I understood you properly. Did I
12 understand properly what you were saying?
13 A. Yes, that's correct. Battalions -- battalions are divided into
14 the command, the detachment platoons, so if all that was listed, you
15 would also see the number of personnel, officers, non-commissioned
16 officers, civilians working in the battalion, and so on and so forth.
17 Q. Okay. Let's look at the following document, which is P04293.
18 This document was issued by the South-East Herzegovina Operations Zone in
19 August 1993. Its title is "Report on the Organisation and Activities of
20 the Headquarters Office of the 2nd HVO Brigade," and it says here the
21 brigade was not in a position to secure the necessary MTS for the work of
22 the office. And then a few lines further down:
23 "... in order to be able to supply the following units and
24 services in the brigade:"
25 And then the four battalions are listed: The Operations and
1 Training Department, Artillery, Brigade Military Police, Protection
2 Platoon, Logistics Platoon. Tell me, please, Mr. Andabak, what would be
3 your comment on what we have just read? According to what you know, did
4 brigades in your OZ have the same units and services on their strengths?
5 A. Yes, every brigade in my OZ had the same organisation and the
6 same units and elements.
7 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, I should
8 move to a big, somewhat larger topic, so I would kindly ask you if we
9 could have a break now five minutes before.
10 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Let's have our 20-minute break.
11 --- Recess taken at 3.37 p.m.
12 --- On resuming at 4.02 p.m.
13 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] The court is back in session.
14 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation]
15 Q. Mr. Andabak, let's look at the following document, P04103. The
16 document again was signed by Mr. Govorusic, the deputy commander of the
17 operative zone, and it is -- it was issued in August 1993. The title is
18 "Report on the Situation in Brigades - Report." Please look at the third
19 page of the document in Croatian, and in English it's on page 6. The
20 title is "The 6th Battalion of the Military Police."
21 Mr. Andabak, was that the battalion of the military police under
22 your command?
23 A. Yes, that was the 6th Battalion of the Military Police.
24 Q. Below the title, it says:
25 "The check on the implementation of the order ..."
1 And further on you can read that the check refers to the number,
2 reporting, work. Do you remember that this check was, indeed, performed,
3 that it was carried out?
4 A. Yes, the check did happen.
5 Q. Thank you. And now let's look at the following document, which
6 is P04110.
7 And while we're looking for the document, tell me, please, in the
8 your zone did you receive reports from companies and platoons that were
9 on the strength of your battalion?
10 A. Yes, we received daily operative reports from them.
11 Q. Did you also receive reports from the brigade platoons of the
12 military police in your zone?
13 A. When it comes to the brigade platoons of the military police, we
14 did not receive reports from them because they were not duty-bound to
15 report to us, but to the brigade commander.
16 Q. Now you have the document before you. We can see that this is a
17 document issued by the brigade military police platoon, sent to the
18 command of the brigade, just like you've told us. Could you please
19 look -- somewhere in the middle of the document, it says "BVP." Does
20 this refer to the brigade military police? Does this stand for the
21 brigade military police?
22 A. Yes, this is the abbreviation for the brigade military police.
23 Q. It says here BVP was sent to the place where nine dead bodies of
24 Muslim civilians were found. The case was referred to the brigade SIS.
25 Do you know something about the case that is mentioned in here?
1 A. The brigade military police received a report that in a village
2 there were several dead bodies to be found. They went there. They
3 secured the site, and they called the SIS of their own brigade as well as
4 the Crime Prevention Department of the active military police battalion,
5 which took the case over. They carried out an on-site inspection, filed
6 a criminal report. And as far as I know, the perpetrator of that
7 particular crime is still serving sentence.
8 Q. Tell me, please, do you know where that was? What is the village
9 in question? You did mention that it was in the village, but what
10 village was that?
11 A. The name of the village was Mokronoge in Tomislavgrad
12 municipality, and the case file name is Bakovici.
13 Q. Then we can skip a document and we can move on to --
14 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Just a second, Colonel.
15 I'm interested in the fact that nine Muslim civilians were found
16 dead, and you're saying -- or, rather, in this document it says that the
17 case was referred to the SIS. So here is what I would like to know: Why
18 did the military police not carry out this investigation? Why was this
19 case referred to the SIS?
20 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] In that case, it was the brigade
21 military police which did not have the Crime Prevention Department of the
22 military police, it only existed within the 6th Battalion of the active
23 military police, and that is why they could not carry out an on-site
25 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well, thank you.
1 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation]
2 Q. Mr. Andabak, could you please look at P00970.
3 And while this is being brought up, I'm going to ask you this:
4 Who did you sent your reports to and what kind of reports those were?
5 A. I, as the commander of the 2nd Battalion of the Military Police,
6 was duty-bound to send daily, weekly, monthly, quarterly, as well as
7 interim reports to the Operative Duty Service of the Military Police
8 Administration and the command of the OZ.
9 Q. Mr. Andabak, when a report of yours arrived at the
10 Duty Operations Service of the MP Administration, what happened to it
12 A. The officer on duty who received my report, and the reports of
13 the other military commanders from the other OZs, collects them all
14 together, looks at all the items, send on what is interesting for the
15 Military Police Administration and its subordinate units, whether they be
16 the traffic police unit or the general police, crime police, assistant
17 chief of SIS in the Military Police Administration or whatever, and so
18 when they collect all these reports, they send them to the chief of the
19 Military Police Administration. And as far as I know, when he received a
20 report of that kind, he would send it on to the head of the Office of the
21 Main Staff, SIS assistant, Ministry of Defence, and various addressees.
22 Q. Tell me, please, Mr. Andabak, your report, did it contain
23 information about what the brigade military police did in your zone?
24 A. Since they do not submit reports to me, my reports didn't contain
25 those elements either.
1 Q. Tell me, do you know what it was like in other zones with the
2 reports of other military police?
3 A. Well, all I can tell you is what I heard; that is to say, that
4 there were cases in the Operative Zone of South-East Herzegovina whereby
5 military policemen step outside the frameworks of the brigade, and then
6 the commander of the battalion would write such a report to the military
7 police and the duty officer.
8 Q. Mr. Andabak, would you now look at the document before you now?
9 P00970 is the document - we called it up earlier on - and tell the Court
10 what is this document?
11 A. This is a quarterly report on the work of the 2nd Battalion of
12 the Military Police for North-West Herzegovina OZ.
13 Q. Is that one of your reports?
14 A. Yes, it is, it's my report.
15 Q. Who did you send it to? Who were you reporting to?
16 A. As you can see from the heading and title, one copy went to the
17 military police, to the duty officer, and the second to the command of
18 the Operative Zone of North-West Herzegovina.
19 Q. Mr. Andabak, in the Croatian version of the document we see
20 something written in hand -- by hand, something handwritten. Do you
21 recognise the writing, whose handwriting that is?
22 A. Yes, it's the handwriting of the commander of the operative zone,
23 Mr. Zeljko Siljeg.
24 Q. Mr. Andabak, who -- well, let me you this first: As a member of
25 the military police, as a commander of a battalion, did you take part in
1 any combat operations, have any combat assignments?
2 A. Yes, I did take part in combat operations.
3 Q. And, tell me, who did you submit your combat reports to?
4 A. I submitted my combat reports to the commander of the operative
5 zone at the briefings, I reported to him at the briefings.
6 Q. And when were these briefings held, who attended, and what was
7 discussed at these briefings?
8 A. Mostly when there was no combat going on, every day at a certain
9 time there would be a briefing. During combat, we would mostly meet at
10 the forward command post of the OZ, where the commander of the OZ would
11 attend, and his assistants, and the commanders of the units located in
12 the area.
13 Q. And what would you discuss at these briefings?
14 A. Well, mostly we would discuss how many men we had, the positions
15 we had reached, whether there had been any fighting, whether we suffered
16 any losses. We would discuss matters of logistics and any problems that
17 might have arisen, and we would be given assignments for the forthcoming
18 period, that is to say, for the following day.
19 Q. All right, Mr. Andabak, now let's move on. We're going to skip
20 two documents and move on to document P -- 5D04385. It is an order from
21 Colonel Siljeg, dated June 1993, and linked to reporting of the commands,
22 the regular combat reports. Now, did you receive this order?
23 A. Yes, we did receive this order and acted upon it. And as it says
24 in the order, we executed it.
25 Q. Right. We'll skip the next document and move on to document
2 And while we're waiting for that document to be displayed, let me
3 ask you this, Mr. Andabak: In your OZ, who issued you orders for combat
4 in your OZ?
5 A. The commander of the operative zone, himself, issued orders to
6 me, personally.
7 Q. Tell me, Mr. Andabak, were you ever involved in some combat
8 outside the North-West Herzegovina OZ?
9 A. Yes, we were involved in the South-East Herzegovina OZ.
10 Q. Can you explain to us what the principle was, how you went from
11 your zone to the South-East Herzegovina OZ? Who gave you the orders to
12 go? How does this function, generally speaking? What's the procedure?
13 A. Well, the command of the South-East Herzegovina Operative Zone
14 asking for assistance in manpower, that is to say, the military police,
15 sends a request to the Main Staff of the HVO, and the Main Staff issues
16 this same order to the Military Police Administration. And then the head
17 of the Military Police Administration issues the order for this unit to
18 move from one zone to another.
19 Q. And when you arrive in that area of responsibility, once you
20 arrive, who issues you orders in that new area of responsibility?
21 A. The commander does, the commander of the operative zone in which
22 we are located, or the person that he authorises to do that.
23 Q. Now look at the document that you have before you, 5D02102. It's
24 an order from Colonel Zeljko Siljeg, dated the 29th of June, 1993, and it
1 "The military police forces in Bugojno and Gornji Vakuf are
2 placed under the command of the Eugen Kvaternik and Ante Starcevic
3 Brigades in their area of responsibility.
4 "In addition to their regular tasks, the military police forces
5 are also combat units and should be used -- and can be used as such."
6 Tell me, Mr. Andabak, did you receive this order?
7 A. As commander of the battalion, yes, I did receive this order.
8 Q. And was the order carried out?
9 A. Yes, the order was carried out, and these two military police
10 companies were placed under the command specified.
11 Q. Now, in item 3, it says:
12 "This order is valid until it is changed by the Administration of
13 the Military Police or the Command of the OZ."
14 Now, was this order, in fact, changed, amended at all?
15 A. Yes, the order was changed pursuant to an order from the
16 commander of the OZ.
17 Q. Once again, we're going to skip the next document and move on to
18 document P05478. This is an order from Mr. Coric, dated the 29th of
19 September, 1993, and this is what the order says:
20 "Pursuant to an order from the main command of the HVO --
21 Main Staff of the HVO, I hereby issue the following order:
22 "Urgently send the 3rd Company of the 2nd Light Assault Battalion
23 of the Military Police to the Gornji Vakuf Sector. The company commander
24 is to report to the forward command post at Prozor, to the commander of
25 the Operative Zone of North-West Herzegovina."
1 Mr. Andabak, tell us, please, why does Mr. Coric -- why is
2 Mr. Coric writing this order, when you've told us that the
3 2nd Light Assault Battalion was within the composition of the OZ of
4 North-West Herzegovina? Can you explain that to me, please?
5 A. The 3rd Company of the 2nd Light Assault Battalion of the
6 Military Police was engaged in carrying out its orders and assignments on
7 the Mostar front; that is to say, in the OZ of South-East Herzegovina.
8 As I explained a moment ago, the commander of the North-West Herzegovina
9 Operative Zone asked for the withdrawal of this unit from Mostar, and he
10 asked that it be activated in the operative zone under his command. And
11 in keeping with that, the Main Staff then issued an order to the military
12 police to relocate, and the chief of the military police, Valentin Coric,
13 issued this order to the 3rd Company's 2nd Light Assault Battalion,
14 ordering it to go and carry out assignments in the North-West Herzegovina
15 Operative Zone.
16 Q. Mr. Andabak --
17 MR. KOVACIC: [Interpretation] I apologise to my colleague. But
18 with respect to the answer we've just heard a moment ago, and that was on
19 page 36, lines 11 to 16, there was obviously a mistake in the transcript,
20 because the same matter is being talked about, but it was stated
21 differently. So perhaps you should return to your question and ask the
22 witness again. There's something missing from the transcript, but I
23 didn't want to intervene. But in view of the answer the witness has just
24 given us, now, I don't want to speak because I may be accused of leading
25 the witness. Anyway, it was the witness's answer on page 36, beginning
1 with line 11.
2 Perhaps the best thing would be if you were to ask your question
3 again, Counsel, because what the witness said a moment ago is different
4 to what he said then. Thank you.
5 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation]
6 Q. Witness, just briefly, to clarify matters, a very short question:
7 Who requests reinforcement for the military police force?
8 A. The command of the operative zone from the Main Staff, if the
9 military police is from another operative zone. So the Main Staff issues
10 an order to the Military Police Administration, and the Military Police
11 Administration acts upon it.
12 Q. All right, fine. We can skip the next document, and let's go to
13 P03778. This is a document dated the 28th of July, 1993, in which
14 Mr. Coric says that pursuant to an order from the head of the Defence
15 Department, he orders as follows; and enumerates the light assault
16 battalions, and says that in operational terms for military operations,
17 they are to be re-subordinated to the commander of the HVO or the
18 commander of the corresponding zone specifically authorised by the
19 commander. Can you explain what that means? What is this about, and is
20 there any difference here if we were to compare it to what we were
21 discussing earlier on?
22 A. Yes, there is a difference, because by this order all the units
23 are being re-subordinated to the commander of the HVO, who can deploy the
24 units mentioned in any area of responsibility.
25 Q. All right, fine, Mr. Andabak. Tell me now, in the penultimate
1 paragraph of that same order, it says that the assistant chiefs are
2 duty-bound -- in addition to deploying these military police units in
3 battle and their re-subordination to the commander of the HVO, they are
4 also duty-bound to secure permanent links, functional links, between all
5 the military police units and their links towards the Military Police
6 Administration. Now, you were assistant chief for a time, so tell us
7 what that means. What does that mean?
8 A. That means that the military police, not engaged in battle and
9 which has free days or is on furlough, can continue their military
10 police -- regular military police work, performing military police
11 assignments. So everything with respect to reporting, sending reports,
12 and so on, that that should be continued.
13 JUDGE TRECHSEL: Excuse me. If I may just ask a question on
14 document P03778.
15 The police light assault brigades are re-subordinated to the
16 commander of the HVO. Could you give us the name of that commander?
17 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Well, the commander of the HVO at
18 that point in time was Mr. Slobodan Praljak.
19 JUDGE TRECHSEL: Thank you. The other possibility would have
20 been Mr. Boban, but your answer clarifies. Thank you.
21 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Colonel, it didn't escape me
22 that this document is dated 28th of July. We know that General Praljak
23 took up his post a few days before that. This document shows that
24 General Praljak would like to have under his direct authority the various
25 battalions, because according to this document, those battalions will be
1 re-subordinated to the commander of the HVO. So, in a way, it's the
2 Chief of Staff; hence the question from my colleague, because there could
3 be some confusion and we could have thought it could have been
4 Mr. Mate Boban. But you gave us a very clear answer in this regard. So
5 according to you, what meaning should we pay to this document, because it
6 is some sort of a small revolution, isn't it?
7 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Well, I wouldn't put it that way,
8 and I don't know what I can actually tell you about that. Anyway, all
9 these units mentioned here, because of the deployment of the units on the
10 ground and so that they could go into action as quickly as possible, I
11 would say it was to bypass the red tape, because having one commander
12 writing to another commander and so on, all that red tape takes a lot of
13 time, so to cut that short.
14 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well.
15 Please proceed.
16 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation]
17 Q. During this period after this order, who was in operative command
18 of the assistant commanders in the field?
19 A. It was still the commander of the OZ.
20 Q. Very well. Let's skip one document, and let's go to P040251 --
21 P04251. This is an order issued by Mr. Petkovic in August 1993. It was
22 sent to all operative zones. It deals with the freedom of movement of UN
23 forces. Did you receive this order?
24 A. I received the order via the command of the operative zone.
25 Q. Did you act upon it?
1 A. Of course. We were duty-bound to carry that order out.
2 Q. Let's move on to the following document, after having skipped
3 one. This is P04063. This is another order issued by Mr. Petkovic in
4 August 1993, dealing with bringing back deserters. Did you receive this
6 A. We received this order also through the command of the OZ.
7 Q. Did you carry it out?
8 A. The 6th Active Service Battalion brought back soldiers in its
9 operative zone, and it sent daily reports to the commander of the OZ
10 about the number of soldiers who were brought who either didn't respond
11 to the mobilisation calls or were absent without leave.
12 Q. Mr. Andabak, we are going to skip a few documents.
13 Unfortunately, I have to skip documents because I don't have enough time.
14 And let's go to 5D03104. Please tell me when you find it.
15 A. Yes, I have.
16 Q. This is a permit signed by you in October 1993. Is this a permit
17 that you issued? Could you please tell me something about the document?
18 What do you know about it?
19 A. This is a permit for passage through all military police
20 check-points in the zone. It is based on the order of the Main Staff,
21 after a verbal consent of the OZ commander.
22 Q. Were you authorised to issue such permits on your own,
24 A. No, I wasn't. I couldn't do it on my own. I couldn't do any --
25 I couldn't issue any permits independently.
1 Q. Let's go to the following document, which is P01238. This is an
2 order issued in January 1993, co-signed by the Chief of the Main Staff of
3 the HVO, Mr. Milivoj Petkovic, and on behalf of the BH Army Staff,
4 Commander Arif Pasalic. Let's look at bullet point 4 in this order,
5 which refers to the blockade and lifting the blockade off the roads. Did
6 you receive this order?
7 A. I received this order in the Prozor IKM, where the command of the
8 OZ was located. The military police acted upon the agreement and the
9 order issued by the two chiefs, i.e., the Chief of the Main Staff and
10 Mr. Pasalic on behalf of the BH Army Staff, and we reported back to the
11 commander of the OZ about what we did.
12 Q. Let's now skip a couple of documents.
13 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] You might be able to answer
14 this question.
15 Here we see, under 4 of this document, the question of
16 humanitarian convoys. Did you personally control the humanitarian
17 convoy? Did you do that personally?
18 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] As the assistant commander of the
19 MP Administration, I participated in the establishment of joint
20 check-points in the zone. And when it comes to the control of the
21 humanitarian transport, it was done by the military police which was on
22 the spot, and the military police did their job without any problems.
23 And as far as acting as escorts and things like that, nobody ever asked
24 for such services from us when it came to humanitarian aid.
25 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] What I wanted to know is this:
1 whether you, yourself, personally controlled a humanitarian convoy one
2 day. I'm not talking about the documents. I'm talking about you
3 physically controlling a humanitarian convoy.
4 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Your Honour, no, I didn't.
5 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well.
6 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation]
7 Q. Mr. Andabak, we are going to skip three documents, and let's go
8 to P02836. The document was issued by the 3rd Battalion of the
9 Herceg Stjepan Brigade from Jablanica. Jablanica was part of the
10 North-West Herzegovina OZ, wasn't it?
11 A. Yes, it was under the Herceg Stjepan Brigade from Konjic.
12 Q. This was signed by the battalion commander, who issues an order
13 to the military police in Jablanica to set up a check-point. Under 3, he
14 provides for patrols, and under 4 he says:
15 "This order enters into force immediately. Commander Azinovic is
16 responsible ..."
17 Did you know about this order? Was it ever implemented, as far
18 as you know?
19 A. I was aware of this order. It was implemented when an order
20 came -- or when a request came from the Herceg Stjepan Brigade from
21 Konjic arrived in the operative zone. And when such request was
22 received, this order was carried out, and the OZ commander and the
23 brigade commander were informed thereof.
24 Q. By way of introduction into the following topic, Mr. Andabak,
25 tell me, what is the meaning of the area of responsibility of the
1 commander, and how is it determined?
2 A. The area of responsibility of a commander is the front-line; for
3 example, from one elevation to another, from one trig point to another,
4 and it is determined by width and in depth. That zone of responsibility
5 can be 300 to 500 metres in depth, not more. But if there is a village
6 behind the front-line, whether abandoned or a village with mixed
7 Bosniak Croatian or Serb Muslim population, the commander will put his
8 troops behind the village in order to have the control of the entire
9 village. And he made this decision with his assistant for security. He
10 had his brigade police which secured his command wherever he put it. And
11 that same brigade military police controlled the entry and exits -- entry
12 to and exits from the zone of responsibility and performed policing
13 duties within the zone of responsibility should some events of that
14 nature occur. And the zone of responsibility in depth could be anything
15 up to 10 or even 15 kilometres. But I also know, for example, that the
16 entire city of Mostar was the zone of responsibility for a commander
17 under the command of the commander of the operative zone, and it was
18 divided into various sectors.
19 Q. Very well, Mr. Andabak. And now tell me, what are the
20 responsibilities of a commander in his area of responsibility?
21 A. First of all, he is to look after the security of that zone. He
22 has to make sure that no crimes are committed, that there's no breaches
23 of discipline, thefts. He has to protect the population that resides in
24 his area of responsibility.
25 Q. Very well. Mr. Andabak, what are the duties of a commander if a
1 crime takes place in his area of responsibility?
2 A. If he received the information about a crime that happened,
3 together with his brigade police, he will go to the crime scene. He will
4 secure the crime scene. He will preserve any clues and traces, if such
5 clues and traces existed. If they found the perpetrator on the spot, he
6 will keep them, and he can keep them -- keep him on the premises until
7 the arrival of the military police. And if a crime was committed, he
8 can, himself, file a criminal report, or it can be done by his assistant
9 for security, but he can file the criminal report himself.
10 Q. If I understand you properly, he can do it on his own, or he can
11 inform the military police and ask them to do that. If I understand you
12 properly, there are two possibilities in that case.
13 A. Yes. If a crime requires the presence of the Criminal Department
14 of the Military Police, they will come to the scene and do everything
15 necessary to file a criminal report.
16 Q. Very well. Mr. Andabak, let's look at the following document
17 after skipping one, P04819. This is an order issued by the commander of
18 the Main Staff, Mr. Slobodan Praljak, P04819. The order was issued in
19 September 1993 and refers to the regulation of the area of responsibility
20 and combat activities, and he says here:
21 "I order:"
22 Under 1:
23 "The area of responsibility ..."
24 And he determines the left border of the area of responsibility,
25 and he says:
1 " ... in front of the current defence line in depth towards the
2 municipalities of Livno which are not under the occupation of the enemy
4 Tell me, how is the area of responsibility determined in Livno
6 A. Actually, the Serbian artillery could open mortar fire on Livno,
7 so Livno, in one part, was a part of the area of responsibility.
8 Q. What you know from the field about the area of responsibility,
9 does this reflect the bullet point 1 in this document?
10 A. I wouldn't know, because I don't know what is the previous order
11 that General Praljak refers to. But this order obviously removes some
12 ambiguities that the commanders might have had at that time, and the
13 order was issued.
14 Q. And now let's skip -- let's skip two documents, and let's look at
15 the third document, which is P03135. This is an order issued by the
16 Knez Domagoj Brigade commander, dated 3rd of July, 1993, and he says in
17 this order, based on the newly-arisen situation in the zone of
18 responsibility of the 1st Brigade, and due to increased crime and
19 unwanted behaviour by some commanders and soldiers, and pursuant to the
20 extension of the area of responsibility, "I hereby," under number 1:
21 "Prevent any theft or any other form of appropriation of personal
22 and other property of people, arrest the perpetrators and institute
23 criminal proceedings again them through this command."
24 Under number 3 it says:
25 "Prevent any violent behaviour, arrest perpetrators and start
1 proceedings against them though this command."
2 Under 4, it says:
3 "Offer protection to the civilian population."
4 And then under 11, it says:
5 "The commanders of units, in person, shall be responsible for the
6 implementation of this order."
7 Mr. Andabak, I know that this does not originate from your area
8 of responsibility, but I would welcome your brief comment and tell me
9 what the situation was in your area of responsibility. Did the brigade
10 commanders act in the same way as the commander whose order we have just
11 looked at?
12 A. Every order -- or, rather, not all orders could be the same.
13 This brigade commander looked at the situation. He received information
14 from the field, and he ordered for the shortcomings of which he was
15 informed or noticed himself to be removed. And every commander could
16 either add or subtract or alter things as needed in order to warn other
17 soldiers not to commit crimes, thefts, to refrain from disorderly
18 behaviour, and so on and so forth.
19 Q. Let's look at the following document, which is P00 --
20 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Document 003135 concerns the
21 area of responsibility of Colonel Obradovic. You are, therefore, not
22 concerned by this document. Nonetheless, I would like to have your view
23 on this item 7.
24 If you look at item 7, this has to do with the Muslim population,
25 where it is being asked that they be re-grouped in that area and secured
1 upon your orders. How do you interpret this?
2 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Your Honour, most probably in that
3 zone houses were scattered. I don't know how this is going to be
4 interpreted, the word "scattered." And in order to prevent crimes
5 against the population in the area, I suppose that they re-grouped them
6 in an area where the houses were closer to each other, and that was all
7 done in order to secure those people and for him to be sure that those
8 people were secure. For example, you have one house on one hilltop,
9 another on another hilltop, and the third one between the two. I don't
10 know if you understood my answer.
11 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Colonel, I'm sure you realise
12 that this was the 3rd of July; i.e., a few days after the 30th of June.
13 In your area of responsibility, your own area of responsibility, was this
14 kind of order given, or were you in charge of the Muslims and made sure
15 that they were protected properly?
16 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Well, Your Honour, I can't tell you
17 that. I don't know whether the situation was the same in other zones of
18 responsibility. I know that I did not have my own zone of
19 responsibility. We were always subordinated to either the brigade or the
20 unit that was in that area of responsibility, and so I wouldn't know,
22 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Let me fine-tune my question.
23 Were you aware of the fact, at your level, that military policemen, upon
24 the orders of brigade commanders of the area of responsibility in the
25 north-west - I'm being very specific - were assigned after the 30th of
1 June, 1993, to re-group Muslim civilians or to disarm HVO soldiers who
2 were Muslim?
3 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Well, Your Honour, I'm not aware of
4 that. I don't know. All I can say is -- and tell you what happened in
5 Livno or in Tomislavgrad, when, under the brigade command, the Bosniak
6 population were disarmed; members of the BH Army within the composition
7 of the HVO, those people.
8 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] So you disarmed them in Livno.
9 After they had been disarmed, did you regroup them, isolate them, detain
10 them, monitored, guarded, thrown in jail?
11 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Well, following an order from the
12 brigade commander, we isolated those people and put them in two school
13 buildings - and I think there was a third building used too - until the
14 conflict passed. They were under protection and, on the second or third
15 day, were allowed to go home. They were released.
16 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] In other words, you are saying
17 that they were guarded for two to three days. Then they were released,
18 and they left freely. Where did they go when they could leave freely?
19 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Your Honour, they went back home to
20 their families, their houses and their families.
21 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation]
22 Q. Tell me, please, Mr. Andabak, to follow on from that, you said
23 you received an order to disarm, if I understood you correctly -- the
24 Muslims, to disarm the Muslims who were HVO members; is that right? Is
25 that what you said?
1 A. Yes, that's what I said.
2 Q. Now, in your military police battalion, did you have any Muslim
4 A. Yes, I did, I had some Muslims in my battalion, and the commander
5 of the 2nd Light Assault Battalion, Jasarevic, was a Muslim himself.
6 Q. Did you disarm them?
7 A. No, we didn't disarm Muslim members of the military police. We
8 checked some of them out and saw that they were not a threat to security
9 anyway, so those people remained in our ranks until the end of the war.
10 Q. Now would you look at the next document, which is P00778.
11 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] One moment.
12 Colonel, you've just said something which I believe is important.
13 You mentioned it very quickly. I discover, because this is something I
14 did not know, that in the 2nd Battalion of the Military Police there were
15 Muslims, you examined the situation, you did not disarm them, and you
16 said very briefly that they remained until the end of the war in your
17 units. So how many were they, these Muslims that remained in the
18 military police of the HVO, in percentage terms?
19 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] For my battalion, Your Honour,
20 I can tell you that they were between 25 and 30 per cent.
21 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Ranging between 25 and
22 30 per cent. I don't know what the figure is, because [as interpreted]
23 I've seen a document to that effect. How many men did you have in the
24 2nd Battalion?
25 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] In the 2nd Battalion, Your Honour,
1 depending on the period of time, but between 540 to 580 men.
2 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Therefore, ranging from 25 to
3 30 per cent, that would mean that there were at least 100 Muslims in the
4 military police of the 2nd Battalion?
5 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Well, yes, thereabouts, if you take
6 all the companies, including the commands.
7 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well.
8 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation]
9 Q. Mr. Andabak, look at P00778, the next document now, please.
10 We've skipped a few. This is a document from the brigade commander, the
11 Ante Starcevic Brigade from Vakuf, dated November 1992, in which he says
12 that on the 17th of November, 1992, a member of "our unit" committed a
13 gruesome murder and killed citizen Salih Grizic. And lower down, it says
15 "The criminal Ratko Rajic, in the spirit of the provisions of the
16 Croatian Community of Herceg-Bosna, we escorted him to the Military
17 Prosecutor's Office in Mostar."
18 Now, do you know about this event, Mr. Andabak?
19 A. Yes, I do, I know about this event, and the brigade commander
20 acted very properly, as he should have done. This is a very important
21 document, and Mr. Tokic is writing to the Municipal Staff of the
22 Territorial Defence of Gornji Vakuf, apologising for the incident, and
23 that he would like good neighbourly relations to be restored in
24 Gornji Vakuf.
25 Q. Now look at the next document, P01359, dated the 30th of January,
1 1993, which Mr. Siljeg is sending to all the brigades, and writes it on
2 the basis of an order from the Chief of the Main Staff. He says here, in
3 item 1, that the soldiers, non-commissioned officers, and officers must
4 do their best to prevent all acts not in keeping with International War
5 Law. And then in item 13, it says that the SIS and the military police
6 will arrest any pilferers, keep them in detention, record all the items
7 looted and stolen; and, in item 16, says that these commanders should
8 their own orders down the line.
9 Tell me, did you receive this order?
10 A. Yes, we received this order from the command of the operative
11 zone in which we were active, and our task was to establish check-points
12 on the territory, and anybody engaging in criminal activities, smuggling
13 and anything else, should be detained if they threaten security in
14 Gornji Vakuf.
15 Q. Did you act upon it, did you do that?
16 A. Yes. A member of the military police in the OZ was informed, all
17 the people were informed, and we informed the command of the OZ about the
18 measures we had taken.
19 Q. Look at the next document now, please. P02832 is the number. It
20 is the minutes from an on-site investigation compiled by the
21 Ante Starcevic Brigade's military police. It is an on-site investigation
22 conducted in the village of Bistrica
23 Now, do you know about this occurrence? Did you hear about this
25 A. Yes, I did hear about this, and the military police -- the
1 brigade military police acted according to orders received from the
2 brigade commander; that is to say, that every incident in the area of
3 responsibility, and this was one such instance, that this military
4 policeman, Jakovljevic, compiled the minutes, and the matter was
5 processed further and the investigations into the perpetrator conducted.
6 Q. Tell me, Mr. Andabak, you, as a military policeman, did you
7 undergo any training at all teaching you about International Humanitarian
8 Law, International War Law, and things like that?
9 A. I graduated from Police School
10 education there, one of the subjects taught was International
11 Humanitarian Law. I know that the personnel from the 2nd Military Police
12 Battalion were also educated in that subject when they underwent training
13 and education at the Training Centre in Neum. And I, myself, organised
14 education courses on that subject in the battalion command and in
15 individual companies, organised with the help of the International Red
16 Cross, where we received booklets about the conduct of soldiers in
18 Q. Mr. Andabak, I'm going to skip over a few documents, and I'm
19 going to try and bring my examination to a close.
20 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] While listening to you, I was
21 looking at the document P2832. We see that a crime was committed at 2330
22 hours on the 17th of June, 1993. According to the details, it seems that
23 a vehicle, a Golf Audi, was seen close to his house with two men on
24 board. We know that when war is raging, and there is always an increase
25 in criminal activity. So I was wondering whether, within the military
1 police, you had night patrols that had been ordered in order to check on
2 everyone that would be moving around, and was there not a curfew that
3 would have been ordered? Because those individuals that were moving
4 around or that were on board this vehicle, and they seem to be the
5 perpetrator of this crime, they were on this road, which means that there
6 was no checks on the roads at night?
7 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Your Honour, this was the
8 Gornji Vakuf area, so there wasn't a curfew in force there. And since
9 this was in the area of responsibility, then police check-points were set
10 up. The village of Bistrica
11 cross the road and you would be in another village, Trnovaca. Now, I
12 don't know whether the military police had a check-point at the entrance
13 and exit to the village, but judging by this, they didn't. And we didn't
14 enter into the area of responsibility. That's up to the unit commander,
15 who could form night patrols. Now, whether he did do that, I really
16 can't say. I don't know.
17 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well, thank you.
18 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation]
19 Q. Mr. Andabak, we're going to skip a few documents, and if we have
20 time, we'll come back to them. But let's deal with document 5D02077.
21 And while you're looking for that document, which is six
22 documents on, tell me, Mr. Andabak, whether you know what the position
23 was of the Military Police Administration towards members of the military
24 police who acted in an undisciplined way and who perhaps committed
25 crimes. Do you know about that, what their position was on crime?
1 A. Yes, I do know about that, and it was the position of the
2 military police, from the top man, Mr. Coric, was that any such
3 perpetrators should be persecuted and a criminal report filed, and for
4 them to be dismissed from the unit. And those who upset law and order,
5 that disciplinary measures be taken against them and, if need be, to
6 eliminate them from our units. So at all briefings and all my contacts
7 with the Military Police Administration, also told us that anybody who
8 besmirched the name of the military police on battlegrounds throughout
9 Bosnia and Herzegovina, that they should be thrown out of the units.
10 Q. Tell me, Mr. Andabak, does the name Ilija Franjic ring a bell?
11 Do you know the man? Is it familiar?
12 A. Yes, I do know Ilija Franjic. I met him in 1992, when he was the
13 commander of the Rama Brigade.
14 Q. Have you found the document I mentioned? If so, look at it.
15 It's dated the 6th of December, 1992. The document is signed by
16 Ilija Franjic, as the commander of the Rama Brigade. Now, to the best of
17 your knowledge, was he, indeed, the commander of that brigade at that
19 A. From this document, we can see that he was commander of the
20 Rama Brigade and that he wanted to leave the brigade.
21 Q. Tell me, Mr. Andabak, Mr. Ilija Franjic, what post did he occupy
22 in 1993?
23 A. Well, I think it was in February 1993 that the municipal
24 authorities recommended him as a commander of a police company, the
25 military police company in Rama.
1 Q. Now, when he was in the Rama Brigade, was he part of your
2 battalion, which means that you were his senior officer?
3 A. Yes, the military police company from Prozor did come within the
4 composition of the 2nd Military Police Battalion. And as I was the
5 commander of the Military Police Battalion, then, yes, that would be
7 Q. Did Mr. Franjic report to you?
8 A. Mr. Franjic was obliged to report -- that his company should, on
9 a daily basis, send reports to the officer on duty in the battalion, and
10 he carried out all his tasks during the time that he was company
12 Q. Tell me, please, Mr. Andabak, in his reports, did he ever warn
13 you and say that the military police was engaged in some criminal acts
14 and crime in the Prozor area, generally?
15 A. No, he never wrote anything like that, nor did he warn me or
16 provide me with any other information whereby military policemen engaged
17 in unlawful activities.
18 Q. Now look at 5D02139, please.
19 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Colonel, I would thank your
20 counsel to have asked the question, but if she hadn't asked this
21 question, I would have asked it myself. Over the last few months or
22 perhaps years, we have received documents that are rather alarming
23 regarding the behaviour of military policemen based in Prozor. There
24 were reports from the SIS, amongst others, and it was saying that there
25 was officers from the military police were committing various crimes,
1 from theft, but other types of crimes as well, and we had the feeling
2 that all this was deriving from the fact that no one was able to stop
3 them and to punish them, and in a way it was, more or less, chaos. So
4 your counsel has asked this question, and you said you were not aware.
5 Under oath, you are hereby saying that you never heard of this sort of
6 behaviour happening?
7 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Your Honour, we knew that crimes
8 were committed, but we didn't know that they were committed by military
9 police. The SIS could write whatever they wanted to, but they never
10 accused us. I never received a document warning me that they were
11 committing crime that would have required me to act. I did act finally
12 when I learned at one of the brief that is Mr. Franjic had caused
13 problems about some passes, and then, as the commander of the military
14 police, I informed the MP Administration about that, as soon as I
15 received the information, and then I issued an order to him to write a
16 written report about his actions and behaviour. He did, but he never
17 reported back to me, but to the Administration of the Military Police,
18 when he left the military police. As soon as I learned, I asked him to
19 write a report about his behaviour, but immediately when I did that, he
20 resigned from the military police.
21 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.
22 Q. Mr. Andabak, do you have the document before you?
23 JUDGE TRECHSEL: Excuse me. I may be a bit retarded this
24 afternoon, but I am not quite clear.
25 Mr. Andabak, what is it that Mr. Franjic cries out, I am not -- I
1 am no longer able to carry out this duty? What does he mean?
2 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Your Honour, I don't know. If you
3 are talking about the order that I have before me now, or, rather, this
4 document before me, either he was in a mental state or he was not a
5 stable commander. I really can't tell you, I'm not in a position to tell
6 you. Something was wrong with him, personally.
7 JUDGE TRECHSEL: Well, we'll hear what the relevance of this
8 document is to be, then. But I find it a bit difficult to give it some
9 meaning if that is the case. Would you agree that this is not a very
10 clear document, that it's not easy to draw any conclusions from it?
11 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Your Honour, after he said that he
12 was no longer capable, that was that.
13 JUDGE TRECHSEL: Thank you.
14 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, let's make
15 one thing clear. My only objective was to establish that at that moment
16 the gentleman was the brigade commander, and that's the only reason why I
17 showed the document, and that's what I asked the witness. I just wanted
18 to demonstrate who he was at the time.
19 Q. Do you have 5D02139 in front of you?
20 A. Yes, I have the document.
21 Q. This is a report issued by Mr. Ilija Franjic, as the commander of
22 the Military Police Company. It was sent to the HVO in Rama
23 municipality. Did you know that Mr. Franjic reported to the Rama
24 municipality HVO, to the municipal authorities there?
25 A. I see this report now and didn't know that he reported about the
1 work of the military police in Rama. There was no need for him to report
2 to the municipality of Rama
3 Q. Let me take you back to something that you said previously in
4 answer to the Presiding Judge's question. You said, As soon as I learned
5 that Ilija Franjic did dishonourable things. When was it that you first
6 learned about that?
7 A. I learned about his dishonourable act at a briefing in the OZ
8 sometime in autumn 1993. I learned that he was being bossy, that he was
9 bossing people.
10 Q. Okay, you said that. I'd like to know what you did when you
11 learnt about that. Let's take things step by step. What was your first
13 A. After the briefing, I called the MP Administration. I don't know
14 whether I told them -- I told the chief of the MP Administration or his
15 deputy, and then I went to Franjic's office and ordered him to write a
16 short report about the relevant events and his behaviour about which I'd
17 heard earlier that evening at the briefing.
18 Q. Could you please look at 5D02049. This is a report by Franjic,
19 sent to the Military Police Administration, a report about his work
20 before the 21st of September.
21 JUDGE TRECHSEL: Excuse me. I'm still with the previous
23 Could I be told why -- or what indicates that this document,
24 which has "Military Police - Rama" as a sender, and then is illegibly, it
25 appears, signed by the VP unit commander? Are we sure this is still
1 Mr. Franjic, the person who half a year earlier had resigned with
2 immediate effect, Mr. Andabak?
3 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] No, Your Honour, we didn't know why
4 he resigned from the brigade. But I repeat, he was appointed as the
5 commander of the MP company by the municipal authorities, and perhaps
6 Mr. Franjic felt that he should report to the municipality about his
8 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, maybe I can
9 help. The resignation that was issued six months before that was a
10 resignation from the brigade, and after that he became an MP. The
11 document, when he says, I've had it, I can no longer remain in the
12 position, the position in question is the position of the brigade
13 commander. That's what he resigned from.
14 JUDGE TRECHSEL: Yes, and we just take the witness's word for it
15 that what he told us about his later being nominated as chief of the
16 military police of the brigade is, in fact, factual?
17 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Your Honour, that's correct.
18 JUDGE TRECHSEL: Whether it's true, we'll have to finally --
19 we'll have to say, but I have understood correctly what has gone on.
20 Thank you, and excuse me for interrupting.
21 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation]
22 Q. Mr. Andabak, if I understood you properly, he was the commander
23 of the Military Police Company in Prozor from the month of February 1993;
24 am I right?
25 A. You are right.
1 Q. Now, in front of us we have that report entitled "A Report About
2 My Work as Commander of the Rama-Prozor Military Police" during the
3 period between the 10th of February, 1993, and the 21st September 1993
4 At the end of the document, before the signature, Mr. Franjic says:
5 "I hereby submit my irrevocable resignation."
6 Mr. Andabak, in answering the Trial Chamber's questions, you said
7 that after you held him to task about what you'd heard at the briefing,
8 that he submitted a report and that he submitted his resignation at the
9 same time. Is this the report, the one that you have before you at the
11 A. Yes, that's the report. He ignored me, as the battalion
12 commander at the moment, and he approached directly the Military Police
13 Administration, and he talked to them directly. He bypassed me.
14 Q. Mr. Andabak, do you know what happened next with Mr. Franjic?
15 What transpired?
16 A. As far as I know, Mr. Franjic, after submitting a resignation to
17 the military police, he returned to the Rama Brigade Command as the
18 brigade commander.
19 Q. And did anything happen in respect of the crimes of which you'd
20 heard at the briefing?
21 A. We sent crime police to Prozor-Rama. They took stock of all the
22 unsolved crimes. We reinforced the military police, and we brought
23 military police officers from other OZs, and we carried out an arrest of
24 Mr. Ilija Franjic and "his men," in inverted commas. They were not his
25 men, but men who were with him. They were questioned, they were subject
1 to investigation, and I don't know what happened with that case after
2 that. That was in late November 1993.
3 Q. Mr. Andabak, could you please look at 3D00422. The date is 20
4 January 1994. This is an official note made by the military police,
5 which says:
6 "Due to the rape of Muslim women, the following persons or
7 individuals have to be brought in:"
8 Two names are listed under 1 and 2, and then there is a list of
9 six people thereafter.
10 Mr. Andabak, you said that Franjic had been arrested in November,
11 and what is happening here? Who is being arrested pursuant to this
12 document? Who had been arrested, who was being arrested, at the time
13 this document was issued?
14 A. According to this document, Zoran Calis and Jure Petrovic had to
15 be arrested for the crime of rape, and the rest of the information was
16 provided to the Crime Prevention Service which had not completed the
17 investigation by then, and the information would be of some use in
18 further investigation and proceedings.
19 Q. And as for the remaining six, had they already been arrested
20 before that?
21 A. I really can't remember their names, but most of them had been
22 arrested already.
23 Q. Mr. Andabak, we're moving to a new topic just briefly.
24 Were you in any way involved in the conflicts which took place in
25 Prozor towards the end of October 1993? If that was the case, can you
1 tell us something about that? I apologise. In 1992. I misspoke, I gave
2 you the wrong year. It's 1992.
3 A. Yes, I was involved in the armed conflicts there, and the reason
4 was that I found myself spontaneously in the Prozor municipality, and my
5 primary task was to take a military police company, composed of locals of
6 Tomislavgrad, Livno and Posusje, and head across Travnik and engage in
7 combat in order to help the citizens of Jajce, which was encircled by the
8 Serbs at the time.
9 Q. So how did you find yourself there? Who -- okay, let's take
10 things from the head. Who issued the order for you to go to Jajce?
11 A. A verbal order was given to us by the deputy chief of the
12 MP Administration, Mr. Lavric, and he told us to go to Vitez first to
13 report to the commander of the OZ, Mr. Blaskic. But when we arrived in
14 Prozor in the early-morning hours, the commander of the military police
15 in Prozor informed me that he had received instructions from the MP
16 Administration to go to Travnik, because Mr. Blaskic was already there
17 and from there he would transport us to Jajce. In the early-morning
18 hours, we arrived at the Karamustafic check-point at the entrance to
19 Gornji Vakuf --
20 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Just a moment. The document
21 3D0522 [as interpreted] is actually under seal, so it should not be
22 broadcast outside this courtroom. I will give the number again, 3D00422.
23 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation] I apologise to the
24 Trial Chamber. I missed that completely. I did not realise that it was
25 under seal.
1 Q. Let's see where we left it off. You said that you arrived at the
2 Karamustafic check-point?
3 A. Yes, that was in the early-morning hours, about half past 4.00 or
4 5.00. We were met at barricades on the road. Those were barricades made
5 of tree trunks. On the left-hand side from the check-point, there was a
6 machine-gun nests manned by the Mujahedin, and I can say that for a fact
7 because they sported beards and they were different from our men. And at
8 the check-point, itself, a military policeman from the ABiH approached
9 me, and when I asked him what was going on, he said that I should go back
10 to where I came from, that I could not go through.
11 Q. Could you please look at P00670. The document was issued by
12 Mr. Praljak and Mr. Stojic.
13 A. Just a moment. Bear with me.
14 Q. You have to go back a bit.
15 A. I've got it.
16 Q. It says here -- I can't see the number, but it says:
17 "At this time, we're trying to move an HVO armed formation in the
18 direction of Jajce, and their strength is about 400 armed men."
19 Mr. Andabak, do you know what armed formation is in question
21 A. Well, it's the armed formation of the military police, numbering
22 100 to 120 men, and there was also a unit that had passed through before
23 me, which was a mixed Croatian/Bosniak unit going to Jajce, commanded by
24 Ante Prkoca [phoen], and they were going to Jajce's reinforcement.
25 Q. Mr. Andabak, you told us earlier on that you did not submit
1 combat reports to the Military Police Administration. Now I'd like to
2 ask you to look at the document P00712. You said that you included --
3 you became involved in the combat in Prozor spontaneously, but it says
4 here -- well, this is a report which you are sending to Mr. Coric, and it
5 is titled "Report on the Events in the Prozor Municipality
6 Gornji Vakuf Municipality
7 Mr. Coric in the first place?
8 A. As commander, I did not arrive at the spot where I was ordered to
9 go, and I wanted to inform the chief of the military police with the
10 activities that the military police had engaged in during that period.
11 Q. All right, Mr. Andabak. Now tell me this: Were you involved in
12 the events -- or, rather, conflicts in Gornji Vakuf at the beginning of
13 January 1993, you or your unit? Was it involved in any of that?
14 A. Yes, I was involved, and so was my unit.
15 Q. Would you look at P01053 next, please.
16 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Just a second, Colonel.
17 The question regarding Prozor is important, because it is in the
18 indictment. According to the Prosecutor's case, in October, and more
19 precisely on the 25th of October, 1992, the HVO launched an operation in
20 order to arrest Muslims and to force them to leave the town. I will not
21 go into further details. This is the case of the Prosecution.
22 You said that you were there in Prozor, so what is interesting is
23 to hear your version. Do you agree with the case of the Prosecution,
24 namely, that it's the HVO that launched the attack, or do you disagree?
25 And if you disagree, why?
1 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Your Honour, I don't agree with
2 what it says in the indictment, as far as the allegations and accusations
3 about Prozor are concerned, because I know full well that the Croatian
4 forces, whether military or municipal, together with the Bosniak side, as
5 far as I know, and I heard about this, talked about easing tensions in
6 Gornji Vakuf. So I'm telling you about what I heard. And I know that
7 the conflict broke out, and the brigade commander, of the Rama Brigade,
8 that is, that the Bosniaks had killed a Croat and seriously wounded
9 another, and that this other Croat, after he passed away -- well, that's
10 how the conflict started between the Croats and Bosniaks in Prozor, with
11 the killing of two citizens or, rather, two Croatian soldiers, although
12 efforts were being made to calm tensions on both sides.
13 And my soldiers, when they returned from that check-point, well,
14 90 per cent of them were to be found in the Bosniak cafes. They
15 socialised with the Bosniaks. One of them worked in the hydroelectric
16 power company of Jablanica. And they socialised and were deciding when
17 to meet next, but the conflict broke out that very evening. But there
18 was no organised attack against the Bosniaks to disarm them or anything
19 like that.
20 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] As far as you know, what did
21 the HOS do?
22 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Your Honour, I can't commend the
23 HOS in that operation at all -- in that conflict, I meant to say - not
24 "operation," "conflict" - because I was almost killed by them, myself.
25 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Give us some details.
1 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Well, mostly, whether they were HOS
2 men or whatever, but I saw that insignia, Your Honour, on the sleeves of
3 these men, and I know that -- well, in my opinion - I'm giving you my own
4 opinion - that their prime task was looting, and I heard people say,
5 while some people were engaged in combat, they would be looting, taking
6 cameras, bottles of whiskey, or whatever.
7 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation]
8 Q. Mr. Andabak, well, I asked you whether you were involved in the
9 Gornji Vakuf events of January 1993, and for that I asked you to look at
10 P01053, which is a report from Mr. Coric in which he states that you were
11 given the assignment of carrying out the relocation of police units of
12 the 2nd Battalion and 1st Active Military Police Battalion, and he says
13 that the main task of this assignment was to preserve law and order, the
14 protection of the population and inhabited areas, to restore road
15 traffic, and defuse fear among the Croatian population in the said
17 Now, Mr. Andabak, tell me this: Did you receive this assignment
18 with these contents? Do you remember having received that?
19 A. Yes, I do remember receiving this document, setting out my main
21 Q. Now, when you arrived -- or, rather, let's look at the next
22 document first. So we're skipping one document and going on to P01350,
23 and that will be the last document that we're going to discuss. It's the
24 minutes from the meeting held on the 27th of January, 1993, on the
25 premises of the Military Police Centre in Ljubuski.
1 Tell me now, Mr. Andabak, did you attend that meeting?
2 A. Yes, I did attend the meeting with my subordinate commanders.
3 Q. Do you know who convened the meeting?
4 A. As far as I know, the meeting was convened by General Praljak.
5 Q. And what was discussed at the meeting?
6 A. Well, mostly the situation in Gornji Vakuf and Central Bosnia was
7 discussed, and logistics support to the military police, replenishment of
8 personnel, the role of the military police in general, its training and
9 education. And we learnt some lessons, what could be done, what couldn't
10 be done. And that was the first time that we saw Mr. Coric. He issued
11 an order to us in the previous document, and he was in Zagreb
12 time, so he didn't know that we were involved in the Gornji Vakuf
13 operations and combat. So this was an opportunity for him to talk to us
14 and to hear about our activities in the area.
15 Q. And who was your commander while you were in Gornji Vakuf?
16 A. In Gornji Vakuf, we were under the command of the operative zone.
17 And when we were in the town of Vakuf
18 of the Ante Starcevic Brigade.
19 Q. Tell us, at this meeting did anybody mention the fact that
20 members of the military police, during these events in Gornji Vakuf had
21 committed any unlawful acts, such as setting fire to houses, looting
22 property, and the like?
23 A. No, that was not discussed, nobody mentioned anything like that,
24 and there was information that that did not happen.
25 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honours.
1 That concludes my examination-in-chief.
2 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Thank you,
3 Mr. Tomasegovic Tomic, for having abided by the two hours that had been
4 allocated to you.
5 We shall have a break now and resume at 6.00.
6 --- Recess taken at 5.41 p.m.
7 --- On resuming at 6.03 p.m.
8 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] The court is back in session,
9 so we're going to start with Mr. Stojic's Defence.
10 And, Ms. Nozica, you have the floor.
11 MS. NOZICA: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honours.
12 I would like to greet everybody in the courtroom, and I would
13 like to inform the Trial Chamber that I have 32 minutes for my
14 cross-examination, pursuant to your decision.
15 Cross-examination by Ms. Nozica:
16 Q. [Interpretation] Good afternoon, Mr. Andabak. I can see that you
17 have been provided with my set of documents, and I believe that everybody
18 else has received them as well.
19 Mr. Andabak, earlier today, on page 35 of today's transcript, on
20 line 12, you spoke about meetings or briefings in the OZ, and you said
21 that you attended those briefings at the -- in the office of the
22 commander of the OZ. Could you tell the Trial Chamber whether the
23 assistant commander of the OZ for SIS, IPD, and Medical Services, was
24 also present at those briefings?
25 A. Madam Counsel, the persons you mentioned attended each briefing
1 or were replaced by persons appointed by them.
2 Q. Mr. Andabak, you said that you received orders from the OZ
3 commander; isn't that right?
4 A. Yes, madam.
5 Q. Were the orders both oral and written, or either/or written?
6 A. Both orders, both oral and written.
7 Q. And I'm trying to focus on the assistants for SIS, IPD, and
8 Medical Services. At those briefings that you attended, did those
9 persons inform the OZ commander about having performed tasks and orders
10 that they had previously received from the commander?
11 A. Madam, as far as I can remember, the officers for IPD and Medical
12 Services did, but I believe that the assistant for security did not brief
13 the OZ commander before us because of the nature of his duties.
14 Q. Mr. Andabak, are you saying that the assistant for SIS reported
15 directly to the commander of the OZ about the performance of the tasks
16 that he had received?
17 A. I would say so, most probably.
18 Q. Can you now look at P970. I've not prepared it because it was
19 shown to you a while ago. Your going to see it in e-court. This is a
20 report. We're going to see it very shortly on e-court. Yes, that's it.
21 This is a report that you've already spoken about and answered
22 questions put to you by Mr. Coric's counsel, and you said that the
23 handwritten addition, "SIS," is the handwriting of Mr. Siljeg, who was
24 the commander of the OZ; is that correct?
25 A. Yes, that's correct, madam.
1 Q. Could you please tell the Trial Chamber whether you can recognise
2 the family name that you see beneath the word "SIS"?
3 A. This is the assistant commander of our OZ for SIS,
4 Mr. Drago Banovic.
5 Q. Mr. Andabak, does this list mean that Mr. Siljeg forwarded your
6 report to his assistant for SIS, Mr. Drago Banovic?
7 A. Precisely, and this document is signed over to him.
8 Q. Mr. Andabak, with regard to document P4110, describing the
9 situation in Mokronoge, you spoke about that on page 32, lines 13 through
10 18, and His Honour Judge Antonetti asked you why the brigade military
11 police called SIS. Was that the brigade SIS which was under the same
12 command as the brigade military police?
13 A. Yes, it was the SIS of the Krajl Tomislav Brigade.
14 Q. Thank you, Mr. Andabak. And now I would like us to try and
15 clarify an ambiguity that His Honour Judge Trechsel pointed to.
16 Could the Court please produce P1099, 1099. This is the
17 brigade's schematic which we've already seen. Please wait for a moment
18 and you will see it.
19 His Honour Judge Trechsel pointed to the following fact -- could
20 we please move on to the following page, both in Croatian and in English,
21 please. Yes, that's it.
22 We can collate the original with the translator, and we can see
23 that some information under column 10, 14 and 15 were added subsequently
24 by hand. Isn't that so, Mr. Andabak?
25 A. Yes, you're right, the names of the commanders and people in the
1 staff were added by hand under columns 10, 14 and 15.
2 Q. His Honour Judge Trechsel asked you whether it was possible for
3 the commander to have 380 vehicles at his disposal. But if we look
4 further down, we can see that his deputy, if the figure were to be
5 correct, also had 370, then the co-ordinator for social welfare had 350
6 vehicles. I will not ask you to make any speculations, but I'm sure that
7 you can't explain the figures; is that right?
8 A. Yeah, that's right. I really don't know where the figures came
9 from and what they mean.
10 Q. And now could you please look at the first document in the
11 binder, which is 2D01370.
12 For the transcript, I'm going to say that document 2D01370 is
13 another schematic of the brigade establishment without any handwritten
14 additions, so it is in its original form. And I would also like to say
15 that the document has already been admitted into evidence.
16 Look at it for yourself, the second page of the document, or
17 maybe you can go through all the pages, and you will be able to see very
18 clearly that this is actually the original schematic without any
19 handwritten additions or added information.
20 I'm waiting for your answer, sir.
21 A. Yes, you're right, this is the original schematic without the
22 names or anything else.
23 Q. Very well. Mr. Andabak, could we please look at the following
24 document, which is P610. That's the next document in my binder. This is
25 a daily report by Mr. Valentin Coric, and I am going to ask you only
1 about the first paragraph in this daily report, where it says because of
2 the events in Central Bosnia, pursuant to the:
3 "On the order of the head of the Defence Department, we sent a
4 reinforcement from the 2nd Battalion ..."
5 Mr. Andabak, earlier today, on page 63, on lines from 2 to 3, you
6 said that you had been sent to Jajce pursuant to an oral order issued by
7 Mr. Rade Lavric; am I right? Is that correct?
8 A. That's what I said, and, yes, that's correct.
9 Q. One could conclude, based on that, that you were not sent
10 pursuant to an order by Mr. Stojic, actually that you never seen an order
11 of that kind from Mr. Stojic; am I right?
12 A. Yes, you are.
13 Q. I did not want to interrupt my learned friend. I wanted to make
14 a correction on the transcript. On page 64, line 3, the name Rade Lavric
15 was not recorded, although the witness did mention the gentleman's name.
16 Am I right, sir?
17 A. Yes, you are right.
18 Q. And now I would kindly ask you to look at the following document,
19 which is P3146. This would be an order issued by Mr. Bruno Stojic on the
20 3rd of July, 1993, and that order was sent to the Petar Kresimir Brigade
21 in Livno. In paragraph 1 of this order, it says that:
22 "The Livno Military Police (company) under the command of
23 Mr. Andabak, must be relocated to Mostar by 2000 hours on 3rd July 1993."
24 Under 2, it says:
25 "If the commander," or you, "fails to understand the
1 newly-developed situation, criminal charges will be brought against him."
2 And under 3:
3 "The brigade command must deliver this order to Mr. Andabak," to
5 Mr. Andabak, did you ever receive this order issued by
6 Mr. Bruno Stojic?
7 A. Madam, I did not receive this order, but I heard about it at a
8 later date.
9 Q. Mr. Andabak, during that period of time did you arrive in Mostar?
10 After the 30th of June, did you arrive in Mostar at all?
11 A. Madam, I didn't arrive in Mostar after I was sent there by the
12 minister of defence, who told me to go there. I said on that occasion to
13 the defence minister, Mr. Stojic, that I already had problems with the
14 commander of the OZ, who accused me of deserting from the theatre of war
15 and that I frequently went to Mostar in order to gain ranks or
16 privileges, and our conversation stopped there. In the meantime, the
17 Chief of the Main Staff, Mr. Petkovic, called me, and together with my
18 unit, after that call I went to Mostar, and there I met with
19 General Petkovic and with the defence minister in his office. I received
20 my orders from General Petkovic because I knew that General Petkovic was
21 the OZ commander's superior, and I was convinced that the two of them had
22 an agreement about that order being issued to me.
23 Q. Mr. Andabak, when did all that happen, on what day?
24 A. It was on the 30th.
25 Q. What month?
1 A. It was on the 30th of June, 1993.
2 Q. When you arrived in Mostar with your unit, where were you
3 deployed and by whom?
4 A. When we arrived in Mostar, pursuant to an order of the Chief of
5 the Main Staff, we were deployed by the commander of the Mostar city
7 Q. Very well. Let's look at the following document in the binder,
8 which is P1615. This is a report that you submitted to the Military
9 Police Administration, judging by the stamp, and you say in this report
10 that on the 2nd and the 3rd --
11 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] I wished to see whether this
12 document was a follow-up to the previous document. Let me get back to
13 the previous document.
14 Mr. Stojic issues an order on the 7th of July in order to
15 relocate a company of military policemen in Mostar. And then you said
16 that you arrived in Mostar on the 30th of June, 1993. Why did you go to
17 Mostar? What did you do there, exactly?
18 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] We went to Mostar to reinforce
19 units that were already deployed in Mostar.
20 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] What did you need reinforcement
22 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Well, most probably there were not
23 enough troops to man the separation line. We're talking one company
25 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] You say in order to be
1 deployed. This wasn't aimed at providing a helping hand to those people
2 who were disarming the HVO units in which there were Muslims?
3 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] No, that was not the goal,
4 Your Honour.
5 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] When, on the 30th of June, you
6 went to the unit of the military police, were there Muslims under your
8 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Your Honour, yes, there were.
9 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] As far as you remember, where
10 were you positioned, exactly?
11 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] We were billeted in the
12 Herceg Stjepan Kosic Hall.
13 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] That is where you had
14 assembled. But during the day, what were you doing?
15 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] What we did during the day? We
16 were deployed on a front-line, and that's where we were, in shifts,
17 manning that line.
18 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] All right.
19 MS. NOZICA: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour. I thought
20 that that was already clear and well known.
21 Q. Mr. Andabak, on the 30th of June, what was the situation like in
22 Mostar? Was your assistance needed because of the BiH attacks on the HVO
23 units in Mostar? Did you know that? Was that the situation?
24 A. Madam, I know that there had been an attack of the BiH Army or
25 that an attack was underway in the direction of Mostar and Citluk, with a
1 view to taking Hum Hill and the surrounding area.
2 Q. Mr. Andabak, you're talking about the moment when you arrived?
3 That was going on at the time when you arrived; right?
4 A. There were attacks before our arrival, and some were ongoing at
5 the moment of our arrival.
6 Q. Could we please look at P1615, which is the following document in
7 my binder. I've already said that the document is your report, dated the
8 2nd of March, when some meat was stolen from the Heliodrom kitchen.
9 Further on, it says that the head of the Defence Department called you,
10 because you are the one who signed this report; right?
11 A. Yes, I signed it.
12 Q. And he asked you about your observations of the Heliodrom
13 facility. You carried out certain checks, and you informed Mr. Stojic
14 that the military police was in charge of the main entrance into
15 Heliodrom and that the other entrances are secured by other soldiers, and
16 the head of the department agreed with your report.
17 Mr. Andabak, are we talking about the entire Heliodrom barracks,
18 the entire facility? Is that the main entrance that you had in mind when
19 you wrote this report?
20 A. Yes, that's what I meant. The military police control was weak
21 at the main gate, and the military police was only at the main gate, not
23 Q. Which kitchen did the meat go missing from? Did you establish
24 that when you carried out your observation task?
25 A. The main kitchen which provided food for the troops.
1 Q. Mr. Andabak, earlier on, to Judge Antonetti's questions, you
2 talked about the arrest and bringing in members of the HVO of Muslim
3 ethnicity, in 1993, in Livno. Could you please tell the Trial Chamber
4 whether, in 1992, in Livno, whether there was a military prison there at
5 the time?
6 A. Madam, there was a military prison in Livno from the month of May
7 to the beginning of September 1992. It was a prison which housed Serbs
8 on whom weapons had been discovered.
9 Q. And who provided security for that prison, Mr. Andabak? Who was
10 it in the course of 1992?
11 A. The military police, on the strength of the Livno Brigade.
12 Q. And you say that the prison existed up to September 1992. And in
13 1993, was there a prison in Livno at that time?
14 A. Madam, I would not say that there was a prison in 1993. I would
15 say that it was more of a collection centre which existed as a place
16 where disarmed Muslims were taken and stayed there from three to five
17 days, depending on their role in their armed uprisal against Croats. And
18 the body in charge was the brigade. The brigade military police provided
19 security, and the staff of that brigade appointed by the brigade
20 commander. In any case, the Active Service Military Police had nothing
21 to do with incarcerated Bosniaks who were accommodated there.
22 Q. Let's look at P867 now, please.
23 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Mr. Andabak, I was still
24 looking at the document on the theft of meat. You might say this was a
25 minor occurrence, but we can see that an investigation was conducted, and
1 from what I understand, you identified the perpetrators, i.e., the people
2 that stole the meat. Strangely enough, I see the name of Mr. Tuta, who
3 intervenes for Mate Culo to be released. Was Mate Culo one of the people
4 who was suspected of having stolen the meat?
5 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Your Honour, let me just clarify
7 We didn't determined who had stolen the meat. But when I wrote
8 this report, I talked to the operative duty office in the military police
9 and said that I had another request from Mr. Tuta that we should release
10 a certain soldier by the name of Mate Culo who was probably in the prison
11 in Ljubuski, which was under the military police, and so I just let them
12 know about that so that the Administration of the Military Police should
13 know about this. And as I talked to Minister Bruno Stojic and sent this
14 report, I sent in this request for release of this particular soldier,
15 and I sent this out as a piece of information to the active-duty officer.
16 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Here is why I'm surprised: You
17 report this to the minister of defence, Mr. Stojic, and you are reporting
18 an incident with one soldier who is held, and you want this soldier to be
19 freed. We don't really know what he's done. But why do you report this
20 to the minister? Does that mean that at that time the minister of
21 defence was following personally the situation of each and every soldier?
22 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Your Honour, no, you misunderstood
23 this. I am submitting this report to the operative duty officer in the
24 Military Police Administration, whom I told that I had talked to the
25 minister. I told the minister that I was in the location. I told him
1 where the problem was about this stolen meat, and then I said that we
2 would send in a request to have a soldier released. But we had no
3 responsibility towards those soldiers or the prisons held by the brigade
4 military police. So the defence minister had nothing to do with the
5 release of prisoners, nor the military police. I'm just sending this
6 piece of information about this request.
7 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well.
8 Please proceed.
9 MS. NOZICA: [Interpretation] Thank you.
10 Q. Mr. Andabak, let's be precise. Your answer was that you were
11 sending this report to the operative duty officer in the Military Police
12 Administration, whom you were informing about your conversation with
13 Mr. Stojic, and you were also sending him everything listed here?
14 A. Yes, to the operative duty officer, and I informed the minister
15 orally about this.
16 Q. I see, thank you. You informed Mr. Stojic about the stolen meat,
17 right, and the situation -- or, rather, what you established in that
19 A. Yes, that's right, and that's what it says in the report, what
20 the military police should do, and the security, and so on.
21 Q. All right. Now look at P867, the next document, please. We'll
22 go through that very quickly, because I've been informed that I only have
23 12 minutes left.
24 Mr. Andabak, you were shown today document P781, which states the
25 establishment of the -- the system, according to establishment, of the
1 operative zone. And we see there that according to that organisation, we
2 have the 2nd Military Police Battalion. And you answered a question from
3 Judge Antonetti, saying that you were, with respect to document P781,
4 subordinated to the commander of the operative zone in the performance of
5 duties and tasks. And this document, signed by Mr. Siljeg on the 6th of
6 December, 1992
7 "On the basis of the arisen need and due to the formation of the
8 Operative Zone of North-West Herzegovina
9 the number of connections with the Main Staff, and in order to provide
10 successful leading and commanding of the units, I order:
11 "The commands of all the units of the HVO subordinated to the
12 command of the Operative Zone of North-West Herzegovina, that they are
13 obliged to send all requests and proposals and needs to the Defence
14 Department through this command."
15 Mr. Andabak, were you informed about this order, and did you act
16 in conformity with this order?
17 A. I was informed of this order at the briefing. And as you can see
18 from the order, itself, we weren't named in this order, so we didn't have
19 to act.
20 Q. But you were informed of it, you knew about it?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Now look at P1053.
23 A. I don't seem to have that.
24 Q. It's document 3D, actually, 3D478, 3D478. Have you found it?
25 The document is signed by Mr. Zrinko Tokic on the 22nd of January, 1993
1 And during the examination-in-chief today, you were asked about this
2 document, or, rather, about document P1083, and your stay in Gornji Vakuf
3 in January 1993. So this an operative report.
4 Let's look at the last sentence. It says:
5 "Units of this brigade," and we're talking about the
6 Ante Starcevic Brigade from Gornji Vakuf, "and units added are
7 co-ordinated and shall carry out all the orders issued by this command."
8 Now, Mr. Andabak, this observation, does it refer to your unit as
9 well, since at the time you were in Gornji Vakuf?
10 A. Yes, this order does refer to the military police units, because
11 they were under the command of the Ante Starcevic Brigade.
12 Q. Once more, for the record, it was document 3D478. Yes, it's
13 correctly recorded in the transcript.
14 Now, Mr. Andabak, you spoke about Mr. Franjic today. You
15 testified about him and said that sometime at the end of November, in an
16 operation, he was arrested because of his acts -- because of acts
17 committed in the Prozor area.
18 Look at P6734 now, please. This is an order dated the 19th of
19 November, 1993, in the which, under item 1, it says:
20 "On the basis of military police security tasks at the
21 Prozor-Vakuf front ..."
22 The order is signed by Mr. Rade Lavric. And to go back to item
23 1, it says that the perpetrators of crimes were Andrijo Beljo,
24 Ilija Franjic, and Ante Bradic, nicknamed Banja Luka [as interpreted].
25 These persons and all others responsible for the disturbing public law
1 and order are to be arrested and taken to the Ljubuski Military Remand
3 So was that the order under which Mr. Ilija Franjic was arrested?
4 A. Madam, that is the order, and that is the operation by which the
5 military police arrested these persons and others who worked in cohort
6 with them.
7 Q. I missed a document. Would you look at 5D4377, please. Have you
8 found it?
9 A. Yes, I have.
10 Q. During the examination-in-chief today, you said that it was the
11 commander of the Operative Zone of North-West Herzegovina that you
12 received oral and written orders. Here we have one such order, where it
14 "Pursuant to an oral order of the North-West Herzegovina OZ
15 commander, Colonel Zeljko Siljeg, dated the 18 of April, 1993, I hereby
17 "That one company from the active-service strength of the 2nd
18 Military Police Battalion report to the OZ --" or, rather, "IZM, the
19 forward command post at Prozor, by 0700 hours," report to
20 Mr. Colonel Siljeg, "on the 19th of April."
21 And we see that Mr. Ante Govorusic's name is written down there.
22 Now, Mr. Andabak, did you receive this order and did you act upon
24 A. I'm familiar with this order. We did receive this order. The
25 Livno and -- and we sent to the Livno and Tomislavgrad unit
1 reinforcements. And as for Ante Govorusic, somebody else signed for him:
2 MS. NOZICA: [Interpretation] Thank you, Mr. Andabak. My time is
3 up. I'm told that was my last question. Thank you for answering my
5 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] For Mr. Praljak.
6 MR. KOVACIC: [Interpretation] Good morning [as interpreted],
8 And, Your Honours, we have 20 minutes left, as I see, and I'll
9 try and cover one area by that time.
10 Could the usher help me out and distribute the documents, please.
11 Your Honours, we also have 32 minutes, pursuant to your ruling.
12 Cross-examination by Mr. Kovacic:
13 Q. [Interpretation] Good evening, Witness. I am from the Praljak
14 Defence, and I have a few questions for you.
15 From your testimony and the documents we have looked at, and also
16 from other exhibits and evidence that we have heard presented during this
17 trial -- could I ask the usher at this point to hand over a set of
18 documents to my colleague behind me. We seem to be concerned about the
19 documents. And could -- I hope you're not going to count this time used
20 up in the distribution of documents against me.
21 So from your testimony and from other evidence presented here,
22 I'd like to summarise certain facts, or, rather, I'm going to give you an
23 observation. Tell me if it's correct or not.
24 There are basically three forms of action of the regional
25 military police battalions. The first is regional military police
1 battalions act in conformity with the basic establishment documents
2 governing the organisation of the military police; that is to say, they
3 carry out their regular duties or typically military police assignments;
4 would that be correct?
5 A. That is correct, except the regional military police, that term
6 you used, is not the right term. I don't know what you mean when you say
7 "regional military police."
8 Q. You're quite right. It's a technical term used frequently by
9 people when they were talking about a military police battalion of the
10 kind in which you were commander, because they were distributed in
11 regions; right?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. Secondly, the second form, which is exceptional, is that military
14 police units sometimes carry out certain tasks and assignments of a
15 military nature, just like any other typical HVO military units, and such
16 assignments, in such cases, they carry out completely independently as a
17 separately-issued order or assignment. Are there any such cases?
18 A. I don't remember any cases where they acted independently.
19 That's not right. They were always attached to one of the units, and
20 they came within the composition of one of the units that already
22 Q. All right. Now, let's try and clarify this and see what the
23 documents say.
24 Look at P05478 first, please. It's the first document in that
25 binder. As we can see, it's an order signed by Mr. Valentin Coric, dated
1 the 29th of September, 1993. It says:
2 "Send the order urgently," et cetera, "to the 2nd Light
3 Assault Battalion."
4 But I'm interested in the last paragraph. It says:
5 "Equip the unit with the requisite ammunition and equipment to
6 permit them to operate independently in the utilisation zone to which
7 they are assigned."
8 And the dead-line for completion is such and such.
9 So is this an independent assignment of some kind or is it an
10 assignment which you will be given in more precise terms when you report
11 to Siljeg, as it says in the first paragraph?
12 A. Counsel, this unit is on the Mostar front. The unit, pursuant to
13 a command from the Main Staff, is sent to the North-West Herzegovina
14 Operative Zone to carry out the assignments and to --
15 THE INTERPRETER: Could the witness kindly slow down, please,
16 thank you, for the benefit of one and all.
17 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] They need ammunition and equipment,
18 whether for RPG shells or whatever, and that's why Mr. Valentin Coric
19 says that the unit should be equipped as if it was going to carry out an
20 operation independently. And when it reports to the operative zone, then
21 Colonel Siljeg will deploy it, deploy the men.
22 Q. Thank you. So we've explained this, have we?
23 JUDGE TRECHSEL: I'm not sure whether the witness is aware of
24 this. Witness, the interpreters have complained that you speak too fast,
25 and they ask you to slow down a little bit.
1 MR. KOVACIC: [Interpretation] It's my fault, Your Honour, because
2 we were speaking the same language and I wanted to speed up.
3 Q. From what you've told us, the independent action only refers to
4 equipping the unit for it to be able to act when it gets to the area to
5 which it has been assigned?
6 A. Yes, that's right, so that it would be ready to carry out its
8 Q. When it is on loan to the unit, right, attached to it; is that
10 A. Yes, that's right, Counsel.
11 Q. Thank you. Now let's see whether the situation is the same with
12 the next document. P1053 is the number. We've already seen the document
13 today, but I'm interested in something else contained in the document.
14 The document is dated the 5th of January, 1993, once again signed
15 by the chief, Mr. Valentin Coric, and I'm interested in the last sentence
16 there, which reads as follows:
17 "These units are under the command of the chief of the Military
18 Police Administration --" rather, "the commander of the 2nd Military
19 Police Battalion located at the forward command post in Gornji Vakuf
21 Now, tell us, what is being established here? Does this mean
22 that you were within the hierarchy of the military police alone in your
23 assignment, and were independent in that sense, or were you subordinated
24 to some other unit on that assignment? Can you explain that to me,
1 A. Counsel, as we are dealing with the first active-duty military
2 police --
3 Q. Just a moment. I think I misspoke. It's an interim report, but
4 it explains something that was contained in a previous order. Do you
5 agree with that?
6 A. Well, here the chief of the Military Police Administration is
7 informing the minister about this assignment, about sending men for the
8 1st Active-Duty Military Police Battalion, which was under the direct
9 command of the Military Police Administration, and that is why it says
10 that. That is why there is a separate order, because it was being sent
11 by the chief, and the chief can send it to any locality under the command
12 of the operative zone. But since I was in the operative zone already,
13 they would report to me, and then through the command of the operative
14 zone I would be given assignments for myself and for the active-duty
16 Q. Thank you. So that is, once again, a form of re-subordination,
17 right, but a little different in technical terms in this case; right?
18 A. That's right.
19 Q. Thank you. And this brings us to this third form. So the second
20 was re-subordination. Once again, we've clarified that. Now, the third
21 way in which this was done is as follows, and please correct me if I'm
22 wrong --
23 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] The dates are very important
24 for these documents, and this document is dated 5th of January, 1993.
25 Colonel, according to the Prosecutor, the HVO issued an ultimatum
1 on the 5th of January towards the ABiH, and I look at this document
2 through the case of the Prosecution. This document is addressed to
3 Mr. Stojic, and it's actually relevant to you because you have received
4 some instructions. You were told to deploy your police units in Bugojno,
5 Prozor, Gornji Vakuf, and Jablanica. 120 policemen of the 2nd Battalion
6 and 35 policemen from the active battalion are actually involved in this
7 operation. What is the purpose? Well, it's to preserve law and order
8 and protect civilians.
9 So according to you, is it an operation of an exceptional nature?
10 Because we have the involvement of the minister of defence, Mr. Coric, as
11 well as yourself, and we are dealing with four towns that are rather
12 substantial. So what is the situation on the 5th of January which will
13 trigger such a deployment of the military police?
14 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Your Honour, I'll tell you exactly
15 what happened on the ground. You're just looking at the date, the 5th of
16 January, but you're not looking at what happened a week before that and
17 what the troop movements were; was it the BH Army or the HVO on the
18 territory mentioned, and so on.
19 In Gornji Vakuf, Bugojno, Jablanica, I had my platoons and
20 companies, military police platoons and companies, which acted attached
21 with the municipal brigades. And I spent time in those areas myself, and
22 I saw the BH Army and how much they were bringing into the Gornji Vakuf
23 area units from Zenica, for example, Fojnica, Travnik, and even, in part,
24 from Bugojno. And I know for certain that the military police from
25 Jablanica was already in some villages around Gornji Vakuf. I also know
1 that the brigade commander had daily contacts with the brigade which was
2 stationed in Gornji Vakuf; of the BH Army, I mean.
3 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] So if I'm to understand
4 correctly from what you've just said, this document should be interpreted
5 given what happened the week before the 5th of January, when the ABiH
6 launched an important action which led to the reaction from the military
7 police from the HVO; is that what you're saying here?
8 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] That's not what I'm saying. Every
9 day in the past week, the BH Army forces infiltrated into these areas,
10 and I found it necessary to inform the head of the Military Police
11 Administration about the difficult situation in these municipalities.
12 And, therefore, I was given instructions about what I should do under the
13 circumstances. And as you can see, we have this interim report, and
14 according to that, the first and prime task was to maintain law and
15 order, and to protect the population, and to ensure that the roads were
16 open to traffic, roads between Jablanica, Prozor, Vakuf, and Bugojno, in
17 co-operation with the BH Army.
18 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Regarding the last paragraph,
19 and we will conclude with this question, is there not a contradiction
20 with what you've just said? You said that the military police was
21 subordinated to the brigade commander, but here you can see, in the last
22 paragraph, it says that those units are under the command of the chief of
23 the Military Police Administration; namely, under the command of
24 Mr. Coric. Is there not a contradiction here?
25 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I don't see any contradiction
1 there, Your Honour. What I am saying is that in the establishment of the
2 military police, the 1st Active-Duty Military Police Battalion was
3 directly linked with the head of the Military Police Administration, and
4 he can distribute them to any zone. And I was in OZ North-West
6 Gornji Vakuf.
7 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well. So you're saying
8 that, in fact, it's the 1st Active-Duty Military Police Battalion who was
9 directly linked or under the direct command of Mr. Coric. As far as you
10 are concerned, you are at the forward command post of Gornji Vakuf. Is
11 that how I should understand what you said, or am I being mistaken here?
12 THE WITNESS: [No interpretation]
13 THE INTERPRETER: Microphone, please.
14 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation] We're having trouble with
15 the interpretation channels. The witness was receiving the English and
16 not the B/C/S.
17 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well.
18 When you answered my question, Witness, there was no
19 interpretation, apparently. Could you perhaps repeat what you said when
20 answering my question, my last question?
21 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] What I said was, Your Honour, that
22 the Active-Duty Military Police Battalion had contacts with the chief of
23 the Military Police Administration. But when they came to me at the
24 forward command post, where I was, it was placed under the command of the
25 operative zone, and I was there to co-ordinate them, how they should be
1 taken in, deployed, and so on. So that's what this report refers to.
2 The 1st Active-Duty Military Police Battalion could not come to the OZ
3 without an order because it was coming in from another operative zone.
4 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] It's on the transcript.
5 It's 7.00. Mr. Kovacic, you will have 24 minutes left. You have
6 had 8 minutes so far.
7 We shall resume on Wednesday, at quarter past 2.00.
8 Mr. Bos.
9 MR. BOS: Yes, Your Honours. Good afternoon.
10 I just want to do make a correction to the transcript, which is
11 no longer on the screen, but on page 89, line 15 and 16, when you asked
12 the question, President Antonetti:
13 "You referred to an ultimatum on the 5th of January towards the
14 ABiH ..."
15 And it may have been a translation error, but I think that should
16 have been the 15th of January, rather than the 5th of January.
17 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well, Mr. --
18 MR. BOS: It should be the 15th of January.
19 MR. KOVACIC: Your Honour, if we may correct that. Probably the
20 word "ultimatum," which somehow gets into the transcript, is wrong, but
21 the question was about 5th January because the document is about 5th
22 January, and that is why Judge started with "5th January"; am I right,
23 Your Honour?
24 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Yes, yes, the ultimatum could
25 have been dated the 5th of January, not the 15th. The witness answered
1 the question, whatever the case may be, and said there were other reasons
2 for that.
3 We shall reconvene on Wednesday at a quarter past 2.00 [as
4 interpreted]. Thank you.
5 [The witness stands down]
--- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 7.03 p.m.
7 to be reconvened on Wednesday, the 17th day of
8 March, 2010, at 9.00 a.m.