1 Thursday, 18 March 2010
2 [Open session]
3 [The accused entered court]
4 [The Accused Praljak and Pusic not present]
5 [The witness takes the stand]
6 --- Upon commencing at 2.16 p.m.
7 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Registrar, could you please
8 call the case.
9 THE REGISTRAR: Good afternoon, Your Honours. Good afternoon to
10 everyone in and around the courtroom.
11 This is case number IT-04-74-T, the Prosecutor versus
12 Prlic et al. Thank you.
13 MR. STEWART: Good afternoon, Your Honours.
14 I have a very -- I think a very short matter to mention,
15 Your Honours.
16 The Trial Chamber, Your Honours, directed that the Petkovic
17 Defence should serve any motion that it proposed to put in for the
18 admission of documents other than through witnesses by a date which is
19 now the 31st of March. Your Honours, at the same time the Trial Chamber
20 will be aware that -- I'm sorry, Ms. Alaburic has corrected me. The
21 21st. I'm sorry, I slipped. The 21st, not the 31st. At the same time,
22 Your Honours will be aware that there are pending applications for
23 admission of documents through witnesses.
24 Your Honour, a position arises which also arose in relation to at
25 least one of the other Defences, where, of course, it is possible that
1 Your Honours would refuse admission of a document on the application for
2 it to be admitted through a witness, but, nevertheless, there may be
3 scope for us to ask for it to be admitted under a different guide-line
4 other than through a witness. We simply wanted to clear with
5 Your Honours, with respect, that the procedure which was previously
6 adopted, particularly in relation to the Stojic Defence, is acceptable,
7 that although we are about to file the motion that Your Honours directed
8 we should file, filed by the 21st of March, that we may nevertheless
9 serve a further or supplementary motion if, following refusal of
10 admission of documents through witnesses, we feel that there is a proper
11 application to be made for them to be admitted under the other
12 guide-line, not through a witness.
13 I just wanted to be sure. We didn't want Your Honours then to
14 say, Well, you're too late, we directed that you should deal with this in
15 that motion. It's just that, really, out of caution, and we do suggest,
16 Your Honour, this is a sensible and practical procedural course.
17 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] I'm going to ask my colleagues
18 what they feel about this.
19 [Trial Chamber confers]
20 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Mr. Stewart, the Chamber has
21 deliberated and feels that you should proceed as did the Coric Defence;
22 namely, that it is in the interest of everyone, and especially of your
23 team, to file this motion after having learned, if it happens that some
24 evidence was rejected once witnesses have testified, if any document or
25 exhibit is rejected, then you can include those documents that may have
1 been rejected in this new motion.
2 Have you understood what I was trying to say?
3 MR. STEWART: Well, yes, Your Honour --
4 THE INTERPRETER: Mike, please.
5 MR. STEWART: Yes, Your Honour, I think I have, subject to just
6 being absolutely sure that Your Honours -- Your Honours are agreeing with
7 us that we should file our main motion for admission of documents other
8 than through witnesses, as planned, on the 21st, and then there would be
9 a supplemental motion. That is what I was asking, and I understand
10 Your Honours to be agreeing with that.
11 And I see lots of nodding of heads, which I'm always very happy
12 to see, of course. Thank you, Your Honour.
13 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Yes, indeed. Very well.
14 I seize this opportunity to greet everyone. I would like to
15 greet the witness. I would like to greet the accused, as well as the
16 various counsels in the courtroom. I would also like to greet Mr. Bos,
17 Mr. Scott, as well as everybody else from the OTP.
18 Mr. Bos, you have 54 minutes and 30 seconds to wrap up. I will
19 give you a credit of an additional 30 seconds. In other words, you have
20 54 minutes or perhaps 55 minutes. And then we will move to redirect.
21 MR. BOS: Thank you, Your Honours. I hope I won't need those
22 extra 30 seconds.
23 WITNESS: ZDENKO ANDABAK [Resumed]
24 [Witness answered through interpreter]
25 Cross-examination by Mr. Bos: [Continued]
1 Q. Witness, good afternoon.
2 I want to talk to you today -- I want to start with an incident
3 that occurred around late July 1993, when you were sent to Prozor with a
4 unit from the 2nd Light Assault Battalion for a combat operation which
5 was led by General Praljak. I don't know if you remember, but in order
6 to refresh your memory I'll ask you to look at the document, a report
7 that you've written about this, which is P03792.
8 Now, sir, this is a handwritten report from you, dated the 29th
9 of July. The English translation reads "the 20th of July," but I think
10 if you look at the original, it should read "the 29th of July." And let
11 me just ask you: Is that your handwriting? Is this your report; is that
13 A. Yes, this is my handwriting.
14 Q. Well, in order to get familiarised with what happened and what
15 you reported, I think I'll read out the first five paragraphs of this
16 report so that everyone knows what went on. And I'll read it out slowly:
17 "On 27 July 1993, in obedience to an order received, a unit of
18 the 2nd Luka Jozic Light Assault Battalion from Livno was sent to report
19 to the Prozor operational zone, where they were supposed to receive
20 detailed orders on their tasks. On arrival at Prozor, General Praljak
21 had already planned an attack on and capture of Voljic village in
22 Uskoplje municipality. Since we were not familiar with the field, we
23 received an order from General Praljak to reconnoiter and prepare the
24 field for an attack on and capture of Duratbegov Dolac village. The same
25 assignment was received by a unit of the Professional Battalion of the
1 Petar Kresimir IV Brigade from Livno.
2 "Upon receiving the order, we went to the Duratbegov Dolac
3 sector, where we reconnoitered the field, gathered intelligence about the
4 enemy, and we returned to the Prozor OZ, where we reported on the
6 "A conversation with General Praljak led to an argument between
7 the commander of the Professional Battalion and the general.
8 "The quarrel, in the main, related to the execution of combat
9 assignments, because the commander of the professional battalion asked
10 for more personnel and equipment to carry out the assignment. I, too,
11 was convinced of the need for this.
12 "General Praljak then said that he would dismiss me and my unit
13 and that I would command no longer. The commander of the Professional
14 Battalion said that I had received an order to reconnoiter the field from
15 Mr. Coric, to which the general replied that he had told Coric a hundred
16 times that he gave the orders, and he was now telling me for the first
17 and last time, and that next time I would be locked up, along with the
18 unit. Mr. Filipovic also took part in this conversation, and he
19 addressed the following words to the commander of the Professional
20 Battalion, and I quote: 'I've had it up here with you pricks from
21 Livno,' after which the commander of the Professional Battalion and his
22 unit left the Prozor municipality."
23 Now, sir, do you recall what's been reported here, and do you
24 have anything to add as to what I've just read out?
25 A. Mr. Prosecutor, we had received a task to report to Prozor, the
1 2nd Assault Battalion of the Military Police. I was also in Prozor when
2 those incidents happened, and I know that the 2nd Light Assault Battalion
3 and the Professional Battalion from the Livno Brigade received an order
4 from General Praljak to scout the terrain and to engage in combat
5 immediately. The commanders then said that they needed some more time to
6 prepare the terrain, to prepare their men, and to co-ordinate with the
7 other units on both the left and the right flanks. The situation was
8 tense. I am not denying that. There was an argument.
9 The only thing that is not true in this report is the fact that
10 the commander of the Professional Battalion from the Livno Brigade
11 interfered, and he spoke on behalf of the military police, and he
12 mentioned Valentin Coric, who was not his superior at all. And this
13 paragraph that I wrote, it means that the commander of the Professional
14 Battalion mentioned and evoked the name of Mr. Coric, and he was not
15 supposed to, because he was not his commander.
16 The conflict in question was between the Livno Brigade and
17 General Praljak, and it involved a failure to carry out some order.
18 General Praljak, the way he is a bit fast in his reactions, he placed the
19 police battalion and the 2nd Livno Brigade in the same context, which he
20 should not have, because that was not the case. The Livno Brigade is one
21 thing, and the 2nd Battalion of the Military Police was a military unit
22 and was not on the strength of the Petar Kresimir IV Brigade.
23 Q. Let me just ask a question to what you've just said in
25 So you said that one of the things you reported here is that the
1 commander of the Professional Battalion -- let me first ask: Was this
2 name Mr. Goran Vucica; is that correct? Do you recall whether that was
3 his name?
4 A. Yes, Mr. Prosecutor, the name is Vucica.
5 Q. What you report is the following: You say that Mr. Vucica said
6 that you had received an order to reconnoiter the field from Mr. Coric,
7 so was he wrong when he said that? Did you receive an order from Coric
8 to reconnoiter the field or not?
9 A. Mr. Prosecutor, Vucica did not receive an order from Mr. Coric,
10 because Mr. Coric was not his superior, and he spoke on behalf of the 2nd
11 Light Assault Battalion.
12 Q. You misunderstand me, because what Mr. Vucica is saying, not that
13 he received an order from Coric, but that you had received an order from
14 Coric to reconnoiter the field. And my question is: Is that correct?
15 Had you received an order from Mr. Coric; not Mr. Vucica, but you?
16 A. Mr. Prosecutor, we did not receive an order. Mr. Vucica, to
17 cover himself, he said that we had received that order from Coric, and
18 that is simply not the case. It's a lie. And that was the cause of the
19 argument, because Vucica had lied.
20 Q. Sir, is it correct that Mr. Vucica left as a result of this
21 quarrel, that he left Prozor with his Professional Battalion?
22 A. Yes, Mr. Prosecutor.
23 Q. Could I ask you to look at Exhibit P --
24 JUDGE TRECHSEL: Excuse me. A follow-up question on this
1 You have said, Mr. Andabak, that the military did not have the
2 authority to name or remove members of the police. Here, apparently,
3 Mr. Praljak threatened to dismiss you. Was he entitled to dismiss you?
4 Could he have done this?
5 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Your Honour, he could have
6 instituted the proceedings for my dismissal, but he is a very
7 short-tempered person. Whenever he faced an opposition, that's how he
8 reacted. He threatened all of us to dismiss us, to replace us; not just
9 me, but with everybody, even my commander with whom he argued quite
11 JUDGE TRECHSEL: Thank you. This does not sound entirely
12 unbelievable, having had observed Mr. Praljak. Could one say, generally,
13 that he was not very enthusiastic about rules and respecting rules?
14 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Your Honour, you may be right in
15 putting it that way.
16 JUDGE TRECHSEL: Thank you. Let's leave it at that.
17 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Witness, first of all, there is
18 a small mistake in the English translation. There is a date, the 20th of
19 July. It's actually the 29th of July, isn't it?
20 Witness, on the 29th of July, General Praljak reported as Chief
21 of Staff. And immediately after taking up this position, he uses his new
22 powers by deciding to attack this location. And the handwritten report
23 that you drafted, because I believe this was a handwritten report, this
24 report states that General Praljak had given you an order; and,
25 therefore, you had to abide by this order, regardless of the fact that
1 you could also report to Mr. Coric. I was wondering whether you received
2 a response from Mr. Coric after handing this report.
3 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Your Honour, let me just explain.
4 The order that was issued by General Praljak, the 2nd Light
5 Assault Battalion did go to reconnoiter in Duratbegov Dolac and remain
6 there, unlike the Professional Battalion that returned, and that was on
7 the 27th. And we reported to Mr. Coric on the 29th in order to complain
8 against General Praljak and General Milenko Filipovic, who didn't behave
9 properly and used inappropriate expressions and words.
10 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] But did Mr. Coric respond or
11 not to you, personally?
12 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Your Honour, I can't remember.
13 Very well. This is all I wanted to know.
14 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, I would
15 kindly warn the witness that if he has the same word in one sentence, he
16 has to speak much slower because his words are being lost in translation,
17 and it will help both the transcriber and the interpreters. I've been
18 following the transcript, and I can see the trouble looming.
19 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well.
20 Colonel, please try to slow down. You speak very quickly. I do
21 the same. We speak very fast, so please try and slow down when you take
22 the floor.
23 Mr. Prosecutor, you have the floor.
24 MR. BOS:
25 Q. Witness, could I ask you to look at the next document, which is
1 P03821. It's the next one in the binder. And this is, in fact, a report
2 from Mr. Vucica to his superior about what happened when he had this
3 meeting with Mr. Andabak -- with Mr. Praljak. And, again, I won't read
4 out the whole report, but I will read segments from the report in order
5 to get an impression on what his view was. Starting with the second
6 paragraph of the report --
7 MR. KOVACIC: [Interpretation] I apologise for the interruption.
8 Before you start reading, I didn't want to interrupt you before, I have
9 an objection to the interpretation of one word which I believe is very
11 On page 8, line 5, the witness was answering Judge Trechsel's
12 first question and said, about Praljak:
13 [In English] "Your Honour, he could have instituted the
14 proceedings for my dismissal."
15 [Interpretation] And that's how it was recorded. I'm not sure
16 that that corresponds to the witness's words. I am not sure that the
17 word "instituted" actually corresponds with the word the witness used.
18 He said that he could have started or initiated or gave a proposal for
19 the dismissal. That was the sense of the verb that the witness used. I
20 checked the word "instituted" in the dictionary in the meantime, and the
21 word "instituted" means that he had the right to institute, and he didn't
22 have that right. He had the right to initiate the proceedings, and this
23 is an entirely different thing. Since we're talking about a very
24 delicate matter, I would kindly ask you to clarify with the witness and
25 ask him what he meant when he said that.
1 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Your Honour, I said that
2 General Praljak could initiate the proceedings to lead -- leading to the
3 establishment of my responsibility.
4 MR. BOS: Okay.
5 Q. Well, since we've clarified that, let's now look at P03821, and
6 I'll read out a couple of paragraphs from this document, the report from
7 Mr. Vucica. Starting with the second paragraph:
8 "On the same evening at 2300 hours, I personally, together with
9 Mr. Aldo Delic, deputy commander of the battalion, met with Mr. Praljak
10 and Mr. Filipovic at the Zone of Operations Headquarters, where I was
11 supposed to receive instructions and further orders. During the issuing
12 of orders by Mr. Praljak and Mr. Filipovic, I have noticed a lot of
13 illogical remarks and the lack of knowledge about the situation on the
15 And then moving to the bottom of the page in the English version
16 and to the top of the page in the B/C/S version, the top of the next
18 "I went to the Vakuf Operations Centre together with Aldo Delic,
19 deputy commander, and Zdenko Andabak, MP commander from Livno, to get
20 initial information. There, I received the first true and good
21 information, and I met people who were drawing the enemy positions on the
22 map located in the Zone of Operations in Prozor. All my suspicions with
23 regards to the enemy artillery pieces, for which General Praljak and
24 Mr. Filipovic told me that did not exist, proved to be true."
25 Moving down to the second paragraph -- moving down two
2 "After carrying out reconnaissance, I, together with Mr. Andabak,
3 reported to Mr. Praljak and informed him on everything and suggested
4 again that the action be postponed and planned in detail."
5 And then the next paragraph:
6 "At my persistent insistence that the meeting of the OZ command
7 and all commanders who have arrived at Prozor with their units be held,
8 and that the overall and the detailed plan be made, I was faced with the
9 disregard and insulting by Mr. Praljak and his rejection of information
10 that I have obtained on the ground. Mr. Andabak was also not spared from
11 the threats and insults. Upon analysing the overall situation, that is,
12 the misinformation that I was faced with, the ignorance of the command
13 staff, its complete refusal of anybody's advice or remarks, I have
14 decided to take the unit back to Livno."
15 Now, sir, Mr. Vucica has no good words for the professional
16 skills of General Praljak, to say the least, and also of
17 Commander Filipovic. Do you share his opinion?
18 A. Mr. Prosecutor, I spent a lot of time with General Praljak in the
19 field. I knew his character and nature, I knew his position, I knew that
20 he was a temperamental person and he swore a lot. And I don't think that
21 General Filipovic, who was from Livno, could influence -- I agree that he
22 could do that, and that may not have been professional, but when it comes
23 to General Praljak's temperament, since I knew him in the field, I knew
24 how he behaved, when he uttered those insults and threats, I found that
25 normal. And here Mr. Vucica considers me the commander of the military
1 police. However, I was there only as the assistant chief of the
2 MP Administration, and it was Mr. Jasarevic who received orders, and he
3 was the commander of the 2nd Light Assault Battalion.
4 Q. You talk about Mr. Praljak's temperament, and we all know about
5 Mr. Praljak's temperament, but here the report goes a bit further. It
6 talks about lack of knowledge on the situation on the ground, and the
7 thing is you seem, at least from your own report, to have agreed with
8 Mr. Vucica that at the time there was need for more troops and that, you
9 know, the operation shouldn't have started. Would you agree with me on
11 A. Mr. Prosecutor, yes, I agree with that. So I never went into the
12 operations, I always -- without doing the necessary preparations. I
13 would always see to that beforehand so that the attack could be a
14 good-quality one and to see that we could keep casualties down to a
15 minimum. But Goran Vucica before this time, and that's what I'd like to
16 tell you, lost some men on another front, in another battleground, and so
17 he was frightened, he had this fear. So I don't know what his position
18 was, but, anyway, he went back to Livno. He didn't want to go out on
20 Q. Let's look at one more document on this topic, which is --
21 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Colonel, this document sheds a
22 lot of light for a Judge on the atmosphere within the HVO. We can see
23 that the Chief of Staff gives an order and that the order is not
24 executed, because Goran Vucica leaves. We can see that the information
25 given to General Praljak was serious information; in other words, the
1 enemy had artillery pieces, which General Praljak did not want to
3 It's a shame he is not here today. He is not here today because
4 he feels that he is not being given the fair trial he is entitled to.
5 That is why he's not here today. I'm sure that if he had been here
6 today, he would have paid attention to this document, which I'm sure
7 reminded him of a particular event.
8 What I would like to know is this: When you receive an order,
9 even if this order is nonsensical, do you need to execute it or not?
10 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Your Honour, if I were to be given
11 that kind of order, I would carry it out, but I would always inform the
12 Military Police Administration about it.
13 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] That's what I wanted to know.
14 Mr. Bos.
15 MR. BOS:
16 Q. In follow-up on this, I think the next exhibit is going to be
17 interesting. It's Exhibit 5D04094, probably at the back of the binder.
19 Now, sir, as you can see, this is a communication from Mr. Coric
20 to Mr. Praljak, and it's dated the 31st of July. And it reads:
21 "I was informed by the commander of the
22 2nd Light Assault Battalion, Mr. Muamir Jasarevic, on the position of the
23 units in Pavic Polje.
24 "By detailed analysis of the situation, we propose emergent
25 strengthening of the position and preventing Muslim forces while
1 attempting to surround the 2nd Light Assault Battalion. We are kindly
2 asking you to do everything in order to prevent that civilians and
3 soldiers in this village stay surrounded."
4 Now, sir, would you agree with me here that Mr. Coric is exerting
5 his direct influence over the operations of the
6 2nd Light Assault Battalion by forwarding this communication to
7 General Praljak, and that he knew exactly what went on there?
8 A. Mr. Prosecutor, I don't know what the command of
9 the Light Assault Battalion wrote to Mr. Coric in his report, but
10 obviously the report was not favourable to the
11 2nd Light Assault Battalion which was in Pavic Polje, and I don't think
12 that Valentin Coric had any influence or could wield any influence. He
13 just informed General Praljak that he had received information of some
14 kind and that the situation wasn't a good one. He didn't go further than
15 that. Now, whether it was up to General Praljak or the person whom he
16 designated to check this out to see what the situation was actually like
17 on the ground, I can't say.
18 Q. But he had received the information about that; is that -- would
19 you agree that Mr. Coric was informed by the commander of the position of
20 the 2nd Light Assault? Does that surprise you, that the commander went
21 to Mr. Coric to inform him about his position?
22 A. Well, Mr. Prosecutor, just as I was assistant chief -- so the
23 commander of the 2nd Light Assault Battalion attended briefings at the
24 forward command post of the operative zone, and he would be given
25 assignments: And the commander of the 2nd Light Assault Battalion in
1 that place, Pavic Polje, he was there alone, encircled, under siege, and
2 so he informed Mr. Coric about that. He told him where he was and that
3 he was in a difficult position. And it seems that nobody took his plight
4 seriously in the operative zone.
5 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Yes. Mr. Coric, let me remind
6 you that, normally speaking, your counsel will have time for redirect and
7 that you are going to testify.
8 THE ACCUSED CORIC: [Interpretation] I assume that my Defence
9 counsel will be able to respond with a document, by presenting a document
10 that came back before my one. But as we're under time constraints, I'm
11 not sure whether she has prepared the document.
12 But my counsel says she has prepared it, so everything will be
13 revealed in due course when my counsel responds. Thank you, Your Honour.
14 MR. BOS:
15 Q. Sir, just one last question on this document. Would you agree
16 with me that Mr. Coric was issuing this document because he felt
17 responsible for the soldiers of the 2nd Light Assault Battalion?
18 A. Mr. Prosecutor, yes, certainly, just like any member of the
19 military police if they were in danger. He was supposed to -- he should
20 have expressed his condolences to the family and said, Your son has died,
21 and he could have prevented something, perhaps; not him, personally, but
22 like with this letter, to prevent the event from happening.
23 Q. Let's move to another document and another topic.
24 Could I ask you to look at Exhibit P07553.
25 Now, sir, this document is an order from you, dated the 11th of
1 January, 1994, and it's based on an order from Siljeg on the improvement
2 supervision of movement and transport of persons and motor vehicles
3 bearing HV insignia. And in this order, you order:
4 "To immediately take all necessary measures of increased
5 supervision while conducting patrol service and control at check-points
6 for the purpose of timely identification of persons and motor vehicles
7 which bear insignia indicating their affiliation with the Croatian Army."
8 And, secondly:
9 "Identify all persons, taking all required information on them,
10 with the obligation to immediately remove the mentioned insignia, and if
11 they refuse to do so, bring them into custody into the official premises
12 of the military police units."
14 "The same procedure is to be applied to motor vehicles."
15 Now, sir, do you recall issuing this order, and why was it
16 necessary to immediately remove HV insignia on persons and motor
18 A. Mr. Prosecutor, I really couldn't answer that. This is the first
19 time that I see this document, and my deputy commander has signed it, as
20 far as I can see. His name was Blazenko Bodulusic. So he issued orders
21 according to the orders issued to him by the Military Police
23 Q. So you're saying even though your name is written there, it's
24 somebody else's signature, and you don't know about this order?
25 A. As you can see. So I don't know anything about this document, in
1 actual fact, Mr. Prosecutor.
2 Q. Well, let's move on, then. Sir --
3 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] One moment.
4 Colonel, this document lies at the heart of the Prosecution case.
5 As regards the international armed conflict and the intervention of the
6 Republic of Croatia
7 have two views on it:
8 A, the person issuing this order does not know that there is an
9 agreement between Tudjman and Boban on the involvement of the Croatian
10 Army, and, therefore, thinks that it is un-normal for foreign vehicles to
11 be circulated. Therefore, your subordinate abides by this order to
12 prevent this. That could be one point of view.
13 B, second point of view, as the HVO knows that the international
14 community is observing what is going on on all sides, the UNPROFOR,
15 seeing a Croatian Army vehicle circulate with identification of units and
16 registration number plates, could report to Kiseljak and say that the
17 Croatian Army is in Herzegovina
18 trying to conceal the presence of the Croatian Army by controlling things
19 in this manner.
20 There are two points of view or two ways of reading this
21 document. The Judges, of course, when they deliberate confidentially,
22 will address this issue, but we haven't reached that stage yet. You
23 will, perhaps, help us take our decision when the time comes.
24 What does this document mean, do you think?
25 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Your Honour, what I can tell you
1 now, looking at this order, is that we didn't want -- or, rather, the
2 HVO -- or the Croatian people in Herceg-Bosna didn't want to hide the
3 presence. Well, what you said first. We wanted to prevent it. Now, had
4 we wanted to hide something, then everything would be kept to an oral
5 level. There wouldn't be any documents. And individual HVO members, on
6 occasion, would receive, from their relatives who were in the Croatian
7 Army and in the Croatian police force, uniforms with insignia, with HV
8 insignia or some HV unit insignia, so that led to misunderstandings too.
9 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Let's gain some time. Let me
10 finish off my question, and then my colleague will intervene.
11 We are on the 11th of January, 1994. Under oath, can you tell
12 me, as far as you know, whether the Croatian Army was in the Republic of
13 Bosnia-Herzegovina during this period or not? My question is very clear.
14 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] As far as I remember, and we can
15 only speak about General Filipovic -- now, that the complete Croatian
16 Army was there, no, it wasn't, but General Filipovic came in from the
17 area of Tomislavgrad, which is where his parents lived and where he was
18 born, so that perhaps he brought in some experience gained.
19 JUDGE TRECHSEL: Mr. Andabak, an answer you have given a short
20 while ago does not appear very convincing to me. You said there was
21 nothing to hide, as a comment -- an order to remove insignia, because if
22 one wanted to hide something, one would not create documents. Now,
23 insignia, it's even contained in the term, are visible. They are -- they
24 show to everyone who comes across, whereas these document, of course --
25 this order was certainly not published in the newspaper, so it was not
1 public. And I do not think that -- I wonder how you can explain the fact
2 that there was an order demanding the removal of insignia shows that
3 there was nothing to hide. To me, this does not quite infringe, I would
4 say, "ca cloche."
5 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Your Honour, then my deputy
6 commander in that case would most probably have received an oral order to
7 implement the order, but without any papers, no trace, no trace of
8 anything happening.
9 JUDGE TRECHSEL: Thank you.
10 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Mr. Bos.
11 MR. BOS:
12 Q. Sir, just one follow-up question on one of the answers you gave
13 to the Judges.
14 You were saying:
15 "As far as I remember, and we can only speak about
16 General Filipovic -- now, that the complete Croatian Army was there, no,
17 it wasn't."
18 When you say -- does that imply that certain segments of the
19 Croatian Army were there? Is that what you're trying to say?
20 A. The question was about the Croatian Army. All I said -- and I
21 thought that meant the whole army. I said that as far as I know, the
22 people from the Croatian Army who were there, somebody who came
23 frequently was General Filipovic, but he originated from our region and
24 not as was stated in the question, the Croatian Army as a whole.
25 Q. So you're now referring to one person, but could it have been
1 that there were certain units of the Croatian Army, or you don't know
3 A. Mr. Prosecutor, I knew that Mr. Filipovic came with two or three
5 Q. And where was this in Central Bosnia, in which region? Is that
6 the region we just discussed, Gornji Vakuf and Prozor?
7 A. The Operative Zone of North-West Herzegovina.
8 Q. Let's move to another topic which -- we'll go back to Livno.
9 Sir, is it correct that around the 21st of July, 1993, that armed
10 clashes broke out between the Muslims and the Croats in Livno?
11 A. Yes, that is correct.
12 Q. And I think on Monday you testified that following these clashes,
13 you received an order from the brigade commander to disarm, arrest, and
14 detain all the Muslim men of military age in Livno; is that correct? Was
15 that following these armed clashes that you received that order?
16 A. Yes, the military police and the brigade, the Petar Kresimir IV
17 Brigade. From the brigade commander, that's where the order came from.
18 Q. So do you recall approximately how many Muslim men in Livno were
19 arrested and detained on that occasion? Can you give an approximate
21 A. Mr. Prosecutor, if I were to give you an exact figure, I would be
22 lying. I know that they were people from the age of 18 to 50.
23 Q. Well, I'm not asking you about an exact figure, but an
24 approximate figure. Are we talking about hundreds, are we talking about
25 thousands? Could you give an approximate figure?
1 A. Well, I don't want to speculate. Whatever I say would not be
2 right, so I don't want to put myself into a position like that whereby I
3 was asked to quote figures.
4 Q. Fair enough, fair enough. I won't insist. But is it correct,
5 and I think you testified to that, that these men, you know, they were
6 detained for only a couple of days, and after that they were allowed to
7 go home again; is that correct? I think that's what you testified on
9 A. Yes, that is correct. So they were detained for two to three
10 days, a maximum of two to three days.
11 Q. And when you were asked by the Coric counsel if there was any
12 prison in Livno in 1993, you, in fact, stated:
13 "No, I would say -- I would say -- I would not say that there was
14 a prison in 1993. I would say it was more of a collection centre which
15 existed as a place where disarmed Muslims were taken and stayed there for
16 three to five days, depending on their role in their armed uprisal
17 against the Croats."
18 That's what you testified to on Monday.
19 A. That's right, and that's what I said. And I stand by that. It
20 wasn't a classical prison.
21 Q. Let's look at Exhibit P03716. I think this document was also
22 shown to you before. Yesterday, I think yesterday. And it's a report
23 from the assistant chief for security, Tucak, and it's addressed to
24 Mr. Coric, and it's dated the 26th of July, 1993.
25 Now, I'll just read out the second paragraph, which I'm
1 interested in, and which reads -- no, I'm sorry:
2 "The 2nd Light Assault Battalion and the 2nd Battalion, 2nd
3 Company, about 1600 people were detained in total, and 1.000 of them have
4 already been set free. 166 people were detained in the Zabrisce school
5 because they refused to surrender and offered armed resistance. The
6 remaining prisoners are held in the gym of the Livno elementary school.
7 One of the detainees is a religious official."
8 Now, sir, is it correct that this document actually reports about
9 what we've just said, the general disarmament of the Muslim men in Livno?
10 A. Could you repeat that question, please? I'm note sure I
11 understood you.
12 Q. We just said that after the clashes on the 21st of July, there
13 was a general disarmament and arrest of all the Muslim men of military
14 age, so my question is, in fact: Is this a report of what happened when
15 the operation occurred? It says here that 1600 people were detained.
16 Does this actually refer to the round-up of the Muslim men?
17 A. Mr. Prosecutor, that's the operation, but let me say that
18 Branimir Tucak, as assistant chief of the Military Police Administration
19 for security, he received all this information from the assistant
20 commander of the Livno Brigade for SIS. The military police had nothing
21 to do with this kind of report, nor did it have any other activities
22 linked to detention or collection centres and all the rest of it.
23 Q. Now, sir, this report says that 1600 people were detained and
24 thousands of them were already set free. What about the 1600 other
25 detainees who were kept in these various detention centres? Did they
1 remain in detention or were they also released?
2 A. I don't know that, Mr. Prosecutor, because already on the 27th of
3 July -- or, rather, that night, the night between the 26th and the 27th,
4 pursuant to an order by General Praljak that we talked about a moment
5 ago, we went on assignment to Gornji Vakuf, so that I don't know.
6 Everything was conducted by the Livno Brigade with respect to the
8 Q. But, sir, you say you don't know, but on Monday you were very
9 adamant in saying that people were not imprisoned in Livno and that after
10 this operation everyone was released again. How can you -- how could you
11 state that so sure if you now say that you weren't there and you don't
12 know what happened with these other 600 people?
13 A. Mr. Prosecutor, I repeat what I said on Monday. I know I have
14 information -- I received information that people were detained for two
15 to three days, and then they were released and allowed to go home. The
16 armed conflict in Livno took place on the 23rd of July, and this is a
17 report dated the 26th of July, so I don't see how that changes anything
18 and how it's different from my statement. That's what I said to begin
19 with; people went home.
20 Now, who interrogated these people, the ones who offered
21 resistance, and there was an armed conflict, we weren't there and we
22 weren't interested in that.
23 Q. Sir, is it correct that on the 13th of August, 1993, that there
24 was another order issued by the Chief of the Main Staff to arrest 132
25 Muslim men from Livno who were identified by the SIS as Muslim
2 Let's have a look at Exhibit P04228, which maybe will refresh
3 your memory.
4 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Colonel, let's look at the next
5 document. But I have taken my calculating machine. 1.600 detained, a
6 thousand released, so there are 600 left. 166 opposed an armed
7 resistance and were detained in the Zabrisce school. 334 are unaccounted
8 for. The Prosecutor says that the SIS arrested 130 people afterwards, so
9 I don't know whether these 132 must be included in the figure of 334 or
10 whether one should add them on to the figure. Whatever the case may be,
11 on the basis of the document I have before me, I have the feeling that
12 all the people who were arrested were either interrogated by the SIS or
13 by the military police.
14 As far as you know -- this is my question. My question is a
15 lengthy question, because I set everything against the backdrop of what
16 happened so that you are able to understand my question. This is my
17 question: According to you, all the people who were arrested, were they
18 automatically interrogated either by the SIS or by the military police,
19 as part of investigations?
20 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Your Honour, SIS interrogated only
21 those who were known to have actively prepared the organised attack on
22 HVO in Livno.
23 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] And what about the military
24 police; what did they do?
25 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Your Honour, the military police
1 was one of the units under the command of the brigade during the conflict
2 and during the subsequent disarmament. The Crime Prevention Department
3 of the Military Police got involved at the moment when two MPs were
5 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well.
6 Please proceed, Mr. Bos.
7 MR. BOS:
8 Q. Sir, could I ask you to look at Exhibit P04228. I don't know if
9 you already found it or not, 4228. It's a report from you, addressed to
10 Coric, dated the 16th of August, 1993.
11 A. Could I be assisted with finding the document, please?
12 Q. P4228, P4228. You can see it on the screen. There we have it.
13 So as I said, this is a report from you to Mr. Coric, and it
14 refers to an order of the Chief of the Main Staff, dated the 13th of
15 August, and, in fact, that order is attached to this document. There's
16 two documents attached to this one, a list of 132 names and then the
17 actual order from the Main Staff which was signed by Mr. -- by
18 Brigadier Tole.
19 So just to read out the first paragraph:
20 "On 14 August 1993
21 of the HVO Main Staff, and according to the list compiled by the SIS of
22 the Petar Kresimir Brigade from Livno, a total of 132 Muslims have been
23 taken into custody for whom there are reasonable grounds to suspect that
24 they participated in the clashes between the Croats and the Muslims on
25 the 21st of July, 1993, in Livno, and spread Muslim fundamentalism."
1 So is it correct that these 132 Muslims were arrested on the
2 basis of this order from the Main Staff, dated the 13th of August?
3 MS. ALABURIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, an objection.
4 I apologise to my learned friend, Mr. Bos. Maybe it was an
5 unintentional mistake. This document by Zarko Tole is not an order. It
6 was sent to Mr. Coric. Zarko Tole was not authorised to issue orders to
7 the chief of the Military Police Administration, and if you have a closer
8 look at this, you'll see it is a proposal.
9 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [No interpretation]
10 MS. ALABURIC: [Interpretation] No, Your Honour, I'm reacting to
11 the qualification according to which this is an order by the Chief of the
12 Main Staff, and I'm drawing your attention to the fact that this document
13 is not an order. I don't have any other objections. This is simply not
14 an order.
15 JUDGE TRECHSEL: It says "Zapovjed" in Croatian and "Order" in
16 English, so, I mean, you may perhaps have another opportunity to react,
17 but I think this is -- or I have the wrong document.
18 THE INTERPRETER: Microphone for the counsel.
19 MS. ALABURIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, the document was
20 signed by Zarko Tole, but that document does not contain the word
22 MR. BOS: Well, I think all the documentation is here. We have
23 the document from Mr. Andabak where the subject writes -- it refers to
24 the order of the Chief of the Main Staff, and we also have the document,
25 itself, which apparently doesn't say "Order," so we can all see -- we can
1 all draw our conclusions from the documents. All the documents are here.
2 Maybe I'll have to repeat what I just said. Still no
4 MR. KARNAVAS: I can hear you.
5 MR. BOS: I think there is no B/C/S translation.
6 MS. NOZICA: Now.
7 MR. BOS: It works now, there is translation? One, two, three.
8 Is there a B/C/S translation?
9 Well, Your Honours, we seem to have a technical problem.
10 THE INTERPRETER: I'll try another mike.
11 JUDGE TRECHSEL: Sorry, and I, of course, looked at what I had
12 before me, and that was only the other one in B/C/S.
13 MS. TOMANOVIC: It's okay now, Mr. Bos.
14 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] It seems that all channels are
15 working now. I have checked, and I can hear the B/C/S booth.
16 MR. BOS: So what I said is all the documents are here, and
17 I think, you know, the issue has now been solved. So we have everything
18 in front of us.
19 Q. Sir, could I ask you -- my question to you was: Were these 132
20 Muslims, in fact, arrested in Livno as a result of this -- well, this
21 document which you have referred to as the order of the Chief of the
22 Main Staff?
23 A. Yes, Mr. Prosecutor. The Livno Brigade could not carry out the
24 task on its own, with its own brigade military police. They requested
25 for the active-duty military police to get involved, and that was done.
1 I believe that the commander of the Petar Kresimir IV Brigade gave me
2 this document from General Tole, and in my report I enclosed the order of
3 the Chief of the Main Staff to illustrate the behaviour and the conduct
4 of the military police, as well as a list of the detained persons, and I
5 copied all that to Mr. Coric.
6 Q. Sir, were these 132 prisoners, were they considered as prisoners
7 of war, if you know?
8 A. Mr. Prosecutor, I don't know how the SIS of the brigade portrayed
9 them or listed them. In any case, they were soldiers of the HVO of
10 Muslim ethnicity. They had organised and planned the attack. I don't
11 know how they listed them. Our task was to assist with bringing them in
12 and handing them over to the brigade SIS. I repeat, we did not engage in
13 any other activities.
14 Q. And do you know how long these people remained in detention?
15 A. As far as I can remember, Mr. Prosecutor, they stayed there for a
16 very short time. I believe that only one person from that group, close
17 to the top echelons of the SDA and one of the organisers of that
18 resistance, as far as I heard from the brigade, that person requested to
19 be relocated to a third country for his own safety.
20 Q. So you're saying "a very short time." Are we talking a few days,
21 a few weeks, a few months? Could you be a bit more specific?
22 A. Mr. Prosecutor, a couple of days.
23 Q. Could I ask you now to look at Exhibit P09668. 9668.
24 Well, while the usher is trying to find the document, let me just
25 say that this is an ECMM document dated the 24th of September, 1993
1 it reports on a visit to the HVO headquarters, the imam, and the military
2 police in Livno.
3 Sir, let me first draw your attention to item number 2 of this
4 report, which says, you know, that the ECMM delegation -- it says:
5 "We had a meeting with the HVO commanders of the Livno Brigade,
6 and we have noted the following statements:"
7 And then they list three statements. Do you have it?
8 Maybe the usher could help to find the B/C/S version. We're
9 looking at -- so we're looking at item number 2, Colonel, which is
10 entitled "Political Situation."
11 So it says that this ECMM delegation met with the HVO commanders
12 of the Livno brigade, and then they noted a couple of statements that
13 these people made. And the third one says:
14 "When the Muslims and Bosnian Serbs want to live in this country,
15 they have to obey their rules." Meaning, you know, the Croatian rules.
16 Sir, was that a general feeling among the Croatians in Livno,
17 that the Muslims and the Bosnian Serbs had to obey by the rules of the
19 A. Mr. Prosecutor, let me just correct you. As far as I know, this
20 delegation had a separate meeting with me and a separate one with
21 Mr. Jasarevic. As far as the political situation was concerned, I
22 wouldn't agree with this. I don't know who told them that. Maybe they
23 drew their own conclusions based on their own views.
24 Q. Very well. So you wouldn't agree. Let's move, then, to
25 paragraph number 4, and this talks about the humanitarian situation. And
1 it reads:
2 "We had a meeting with the imam of Livno, and we got the
3 following information: Most of the Muslims of Livno want to stay in
4 Livno, although at this moment the times are difficult for them. After
5 the clashes in Bugojno started the provocations, meetings, robberies,
6 closing of shops, against the Muslims started in Livno, at 21 July 1993
7 Now the provocations has decreased, but the Muslims are still afraid."
8 The last sentence of this paragraph:
9 "In Livno, there are approximately 200 to 300 Muslim POWs
10 (imprisoned soldiers in a school, 100 to 150) in garages and the building
11 of the civilian police."
12 Now, sir, it talks here about 200 to 300 Muslim prisoners of war,
13 and you just testified that, you know -- that most of the Muslims who --
14 you know, who were arrested stayed for two to three days in detention and
15 then were released again. Would this be a false information that has
16 been given here about the 200 to 300 Muslim POWs? And this is a report
17 from late 1993, so it's about, you know, more than a month after the
18 13 August arrests.
19 A. Mr. Prosecutor, I don't know. He may be just throwing figures
20 just like that, improvising. I could have also told you that 300 or 400
21 Muslims were arrested in Livno.
22 Q. So you're saying that this is not correct, that there weren't 200
23 to 300 Muslim detainees?
24 A. Mr. Prosecutor, are you referring to the imam's statement?
25 Q. I'm just asking you. If I were to say, Were there 200 to 300
1 Muslim detainees in Livno on the 24th of September, 1993, would you say
2 that that is correct or incorrect?
3 A. I would say that I don't know. Whatever I would have told you, I
4 would lie [as interpreted]. All these questions should be put to the
5 Livno Brigade. I was not in Livno all that time. Therefore, there's no
6 way I could know whether there were or whether there weren't.
7 Q. Okay. Well, let's -- let's move on, and let me read to you the
8 third paragraph of item number 4, and I'll read it out:
9 "Suddenly, the above-mentioned meeting with the imam was
10 disturbed by crying women who entered the imam's office. They tried to
11 explain us that just a few minutes ago POWs at the school were beaten and
12 there was many blood. We should go with them to the school. The
13 military police who were escorting us took us to the office of the
14 military police. The head of the second unit, Zdenko Andabak, and a
15 Muslim member, Muamir Jasarevic of the military police, explained to us
16 that there were no problems and we can go visit the POWs in the school,
17 but first we had to go to the security officer from HVO. We did, and
18 unfortunately he was on the terrain. When we went back to Tomislavgrad,
19 we were blocked at the HVO check-point. They accused us of taking
20 photos, which we didn't. After discussions and many talks, we were
21 allowed to travel to Tomislavgrad.
22 "Comment: We have got the impression that they have misled us
23 and that they were thinking we have seen too much."
24 Now, sir, it appears from reading this -- it's not very clear,
25 but it appears that the ECMM delegation eventually could not visit the
1 prisoners of -- the POWs in the school because this HVO security officer
2 was not present but was somewhere on the terrain; is that correct?
3 A. Mr. Prosecutor, I don't know whether that is correct or not. I
4 don't know whether they could be visited or not. The military police --
5 the active-duty military police, including the 2nd Light Assault and the
6 6th Battalions, had nothing whatsoever to do with the persons of Muslim
7 ethnicity in Livno, when it came to guarding them, taking them away, or
8 anything else. And when the International Monitors say that military
9 policemen came and escorted them, those were brigade military policemen,
10 and that's why I told them, every time they wanted permission to do
11 something, to go to the brigade SIS, and it would be the SIS of the
12 brigade who would be able to inform them about the numbers of the people
13 who were kept in the school.
14 Q. But, sir, your name is specifically mentioned in this report, and
15 I'm just asking you about this specific ECMM visit. And you seem to
16 recall that these people came to visit. So on this particular incident,
17 did the ECMM delegation eventually get into the school? Can you give an
18 answer to that? They had spoken with you, and you went with them to the
19 school? Did they get into the school or not?
20 A. Mr. Prosecutor, I've just explained. My headquarters was not
21 even close to school. It was at the far end of the town. And I told
22 them -- I told the brigade military policemen to take them to the
23 brigade. A member of that mission thought that we were the military
24 police and that we were in charge of those Muslims, but I'm telling you
25 that we were not at all in any connection with those people. That's why
1 I told them to go to the brigade, to the brigade SIS. I was not
2 authorised to --
3 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well.
4 Mr. Bos, you've run out of time, so please use the credit of 30
5 seconds to wrap up.
6 MR. BOS: If I have my 30 seconds left, I would just want to
7 finish with one last document, and that's Exhibit P06867.
8 Q. If you could look at -- that's going to be the last document I'm
9 going to show you, Witness, P06867.
10 Sir, this is an SIS report from the Petar Kresimir Brigade, and
11 it's a report on you. It's dated the 25th of November, 1993. And I
12 can't read out the whole report, but I'm going to read out one segment,
13 and then we'll be finished with this cross-examination. I'll start with
14 the English translation on the bottom of page 1. It says:
15 "It's important to emphasise that public in Livno knew all about
16 his military merits, and that is why Zdenko Andabak was soon in the
17 public eye. We also have to emphasise that some soldiers who, along with
18 him, carried out tasks and duties from the beginning, don't like him.
19 One part of the public objects the fact that he owns quite a few
20 luxurious and expensive cars and jeeps. He's criticised for driving in
21 30 such cars after the operation in Prozor in December 1992. He's also
22 reproached for disturbing the public on several occasions, for shooting,
23 willful interventions in civilian life, willful violations of regulations
24 on curfew, patronising certain catering facilities, usurping facilities
25 of Livno police departments, special-task units, and accepting into the
1 unit policemen with undeniable criminal leaning.
2 "One part of members from the 2nd Light Assault Battalion is from
3 Bugojno. Later status show there was 90 of them, and they show a
4 tendency to be involved in numerous criminal and illegal activities,
5 primarily the violence against Muslims, forceful entering into
6 apartments, illegal commandeering of cars, et cetera. Zdenko Andabak is
7 reproached for doing almost nothing in that area, although having
8 significant influence over the 2nd Light Assault Battalion policemen.
9 "When comparing these two different characteristics, it's
10 necessary to differentiate all Zdenko Andabak's achievements at the
11 battle-field and his other qualities."
12 Sir, isn't this SIS report an accurate reflection of your conduct
13 during the war; that you were a successful MP commander in combat
14 operations, but at the same time you allowed soldiers under your command
15 to commit war crimes against the Muslims and you were personally involved
16 in the looting of property?
17 A. Your Honours, whatever has just been read out and what has been
18 written is a lie. I know the author of this text personally. Therefore,
19 if anybody prevented anything from happening in Livno, it was me.
20 Whenever you want, you can come and check with the Muslims and with the
21 Serbs to hear from them what the military police did for them. After the
22 disarmament, when I asked for all Bosniak bars and property to be
23 protected, when the president of the municipality came and when I told
24 him what I was doing, or when I asked him what he was doing, everybody
25 thought that he was trying to engage in a putsch, and he mentioned some
1 professional policemen. He says that Tomislav Garic is acting against
2 the interests of the Croats. I had over my head of the turbo Ustashas
3 [as interpreted] everything is a lie, starting with my CV, where I was
4 born, where I was educated, where I came from. He should have checked
6 And as for him, about this official who wrote this report, I
7 could easily write a novel about him. And if I have done anything,
8 Your Honours, I am an officer of the Armed Forces of Bosnia and
10 composed of the military policemen under my command or under the command
11 of different people in my area of responsibility, and I am proud of my
13 It is always the military police that are blamed for everything,
14 without proper verification, without proper checking of the information.
15 MR. BOS: I have no further questions, Your Honour.
16 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Thank you, Mr. Bos.
17 We will have our first break, as every Thursday, and we will
18 resume for Mr. Coric's Defence. The time that you have used for -- that
19 you will be able to use for redirect will be deducted from your overall
20 credit of time that has been allocated to you.
21 We agree, don't we?
22 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.
23 I believe that we will not need a lot of time for additional
24 questions, so I believe we will be able to finish earlier today.
25 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] We'll break as usual.
1 --- Recess taken at 3.44 p.m.
2 --- On resuming at 4.10 p.m.
3 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] The court is back in session.
4 Before I give the floor to Mr. Coric's Defence counsel for her
5 redirect, I would like to read out an oral decision which will supplement
6 what I said a while ago, after Mr. Stewart's intervention, for things to
7 be quite clear.
8 Oral decision clarifying the decision handed down at the
9 beginning of this hearing relating to D4's application to file extra
10 motions pursuant to Guide-line 9.
11 At the beginning of today's hearing, the Petkovic Defence asked
12 the Trial Chamber leave to file motions relating to the tendering of
13 extra exhibits, the status of which is currently pending before the
14 Trial Chamber.
15 In light of a good administration of justice, and to avoid too
16 many written submissions, the Trial Chamber would like to ask the
17 Petkovic Defence to file a single motion, pursuant to Guide-line 9, at
18 the latest by the 22nd of March, 2010, and to include in this motion all
19 the documents which are the subject of this pending motion before the
20 Trial Chamber. In other words, if there are some exhibits on which the
21 Trial Chamber has not ruled yet because the witnesses have already been
22 heard, and you have asked for these exhibits to be tendered, and these
23 have been given IC numbers, this means that by the 22nd of March, in this
24 single motion, all these exhibits should be mentioned, which means that
25 afterwards, if the Trial Chamber hands down a decision or is of a view to
1 admitting an exhibit at a witness's hearing -- let me repeat.
2 If an exhibit is mentioned in a pending motion, and if the
3 Trial Chamber admits this exhibit at the time the Trial Chamber hands
4 down its decision on the motion pursuant to Guide-line 9, the
5 Trial Chamber will specify that it is moot. If, however, the exhibit has
6 been dismissed in the pending motion, when the time comes for the
7 Trial Chamber to review the single motion of the 22nd of March, 2010
8 Trial Chamber can then, if the need arises, admit this particular
10 MS. ALABURIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, thank you for that
12 Now, since the Petkovic Defence, towards the end of its
13 documentary evidence motion in which it included the documents which were
14 not put forward through a witness, and we compiled our motion on the
15 basis of your decisions thus far, Your Honours, and the conditions under
16 which the other Defenses prepared their documentary evidence motion, we
17 have to accept your ruling, of course, by which you're changing what has
18 been the practice so far, and there's no problem in that regard. But in
19 that case, I would like to request that you extend our dead-line so that
20 instead of the 22nd of March, we can file our motion by the end of next
21 week, which is Friday, I believe, the 27th of March. No, the 26th of
22 March. I apologise. So in that case, could you allow us that extra time
23 to file our motion, as we have conceived it, by the end of business on
24 the 26th of March? Thank you.
25 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] The Trial Chamber grants your
1 application for additional time.
2 Mr. Coric's Defence counsel.
3 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation] Good afternoon,
4 Your Honours, and everybody else in the courtroom.
5 Re-examination by Ms. Tomasegovic Tomic:
6 Q. [Interpretation] Good afternoon to you, Mr. Andabak. I'm going
7 to start from where the Prosecution left off.
8 And before I ask my introductory question, may we have
9 Prosecution document P06867 up on e-court, please. And the Judges should
10 have it in the binder. It's the last document shown by the Prosecutor.
11 And, Mr. Andabak, you said, of this document, when commenting
12 about what you thought of its contents and the person compiling the
13 report, that you had had enough of these, what you called, turbo
14 Ustashas. Now, I'd like to read out certain portions of this report that
15 the Prosecutor did not read out, and you didn't have enough time to read
16 it out yourself, to see what this person criticised you of.
17 So let's look at page 2. It's both page 2 of the English and the
18 Croatian. It says:
19 "The public was irritated when, for an official cameraman of the
20 2nd Light Assault Battalion, Hajrudin Terzic was named, a Muslim from
21 Livno, the owner of a video-tech and a film amateur -- a life-long film
22 amateur was appointed official cameraman, when we know his political past
23 and his political orientation, and the role of his father in the
24 elimination of the Croats from Livno, members of the Ustasha Home Guards
1 And then a few lines down it says the following:
2 "Part of the public did not agree at all with the appointment of
3 Tomislav Garic as security officer within the unit, considering the fact
4 that his past is also known, and his characteristics -- character traits
5 are not at all commendable, and also his attitude towards Croatian-hood."
6 And towards the end of the document, on the last page, three
7 paragraphs from the end, there's a sentence that reads as follows:
8 "The details for which this is being called up are appointing
9 Muamir Jasarevic, Babo," who is a Muslim, "as commander of the
10 2nd Light Assault Battalion."
11 Now, you mentioned these Ustashas, which you called "turbo
12 Ustashas." Are these the kind of characteristics that you associate with
13 these men?
14 A. Yes, Counsel. They are great Croats or Croats that caused the
15 greatest problems.
16 Q. Thank you, Mr. Andabak. Now, I was struck by a name I saw there
17 about Mr. Vucica. Document P03821, a person by the name of Aldo Delic is
18 mentioned there. Was that a member of your unit?
19 A. Counsel, Aldo Delic was a member -- or, rather, a deputy --
20 Vucica's deputy.
21 Q. Thank you. Was he a Muslim too?
22 A. Counsel, I don't know that. I don't know how he declared
24 Q. Thank you. Now, I think you've received the documents --
25 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Witness, I am reluctant to
1 intervene during the redirect, but when something important arises, I do.
2 It's the first time I hear the term "great Croats." Can you very briefly
3 tell me what this means?
4 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Your Honour, they were people who,
5 before the war, were members of the League of Communists of Yugoslavia,
6 and afterwards -- or, rather, during the war, in the course of the war,
7 they returned to their Catholic faith, if we're talking about the Croats.
8 And they would go to church every Sunday, sitting in the first pew, and
9 then they would persecute those who were going about their jobs
10 honourably because they wanted to prove themselves and atone for their
11 sins, the sins they had committed during the Communist system, Communist
13 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] All right.
14 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation]
15 Q. Mr. Andabak, you have two sets of documents in front of you, and
16 we're going to look at the first set with just two documents. And the
17 first document is 5D04094. I have put that document in there to jog your
18 memory, refresh your memory. It was one that the Prosecutor showed you.
19 It is Mr. Coric's request, sent to Mr. Praljak, linked to the situation
20 in Pavic Polje. And you said on that occasion -- or, rather, earlier on
21 you said that Mr. Coric felt himself responsible because he would be the
22 one who, if those soldiers happened to be killed, would have to go and
23 express his condolences to their families. Do you remember saying that?
24 A. Yes, Counsel, that's what I said.
25 Q. Now look at the next document, which is 5D04092. And this
1 document is signed by the duty officer of the 2nd Light Assault Battalion
2 of the Military Police. It is sent to Mr. Coric. The date is the 30th
3 of July, the day before the document that we looked at a moment ago. And
4 the subject is -- well, it says "Report/Request," "Re. Report/Request."
5 And in the document, it says as follows:
6 "On the 29th of July, 1993, at around 1100 hours, we received
7 through Paket link a request from Mr. Zdenko Andabak for assistance in
8 both men and materiel MTS.
9 "He is currently in Pavic Polje and is in danger of being
11 And now it goes on to say what they need urgently, and then
12 finally it says:
13 "This is all the information we have at the moment. It is
14 possible that the above Paket communication was the last communication
15 with them. Please assess the situation and do everything in your power."
16 Mr. Andabak, the document we saw from Mr. Coric a moment ago, was
17 that a response to the request that we're looking at on our screens now?
18 Is that what that was?
19 A. Yes, Counsel.
20 Q. Thank you. Now let's go back to the beginning of the
21 cross-examination and start off with the Praljak Defence and address
22 those issues.
23 The Praljak Defence asked you, on cross-examination, about
24 re-subordination of the military police to the commanders of the HVO. Do
25 you remember that, that you were questioned about that?
1 A. Yes, Counsel, I do remember.
2 Q. Let's look at the first document. It's in English, and I'll read
3 it out. It is P10029, and it is an excerpt, the part that I'm going to
4 read out, from the testimony of Mr. Petkovic in the Kordic trial. What
5 I'm going to read out is to be found on pages 26820, lines 2 to 5 and 10
6 to 16. I'll read it out in English, and you listen:
7 [In English] "Not only on the 14th of April, but a long time
8 prior to that, ever since the establishment of the 4th Military Police
9 Battalion, it was under the authority of the operative zone and,
10 therefore, under his command."
11 My first question: Mr. Andabak, the 4th Battalion of the
12 Military Police was in which operation zone? Can you remember?
13 MS. ALABURIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, I have an objection.
14 Could my learned friend tell us to which part of the
15 cross-examination is she referring so as to enable us to find that part
16 in the transcript and see whether these questions, indeed, concern the
18 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation] Yes, I can do it; no
19 problem. I did -- I could make an introduction, but I didn't want to
20 suggest the witness what I'm going to talk to him about.
21 The Praljak Defence, throughout the entire cross-examination on
22 the first day of the cross-examination, was showing the gentleman some
23 orders about the re-subordination of the MP battalions. And based on
24 that, they drew conclusions that without those orders, the military
25 police would not have been re-subordinated to the OZ commander.
1 Just a moment, please. Let me finish.
2 Those were orders that concerned -- I can read all the documents,
3 if necessary, but then I would be quoting the cross-examination of
4 Mr. Kovacic. But there were at least 10 orders which all, to the last,
5 concerned one principal and one situation. And if I'm allowed to put my
6 first question or my first two questions to the witness, after
7 establishing that the witness knows what this is about, for the -- I
8 could ask the witness to leave the courtroom to explain to everybody what
9 I'm going to be doing during my additional questioning.
10 MR. KOVACIC: [Interpretation] In cross-examination of
11 Mr. Andabak, I did not step out of the OZ North-West Bosnia -- or,
12 rather, Herzegovina
13 South-East Herzegovina
14 in Central Bosnia
15 do so, I can explain. And I have to say this because the OZ under
16 Blaskic's command in Central Bosnia, when it came to the organisation and
17 relationship between the HVO and the military police, was an exception to
18 the rule because they were isolated, and this was obviously the subject
19 of my cross-examination and the document that my learned friend has just
21 I would like to object, and I state that my learned friend is now
22 leaving the area of my cross-examination.
23 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, this is not
24 about the area. I'm trying to show the principle, and I'm not going to
25 go out of North-West Herzegovina
1 the OZ Central Bosnia
2 will entertain all the objections if they believe that my questions are
3 not fair.
4 MR. KOVACIC: [Interpretation] I apologise. Even the first
5 question here, she is quoting from Petkovic's transcript in Kordic about
6 Central Bosnia
7 situation there was not identical, in terms of establishment, in terms of
8 agreements, in terms of different documents, as in the other operations
10 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation] I'm going to rephrase my
12 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] One moment. I'll respond to
13 Mr. Kovacic.
14 Mr. Kovacic, that's your position. That's not the same. Perhaps
15 the witness will agree with you. Let's just wait and see. All the more
16 reason to wait.
17 Put your question, and we'll see afterwards.
18 MS. NOZICA: [Interpretation] Your Honours, objection.
19 I have an objection to the objections of this kind because
20 Mr. Kovacic is testifying. He is making decisions as to what we have
21 seen in what operations zone, and I don't think it's fair, especially in
22 front of the witness.
23 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] That is why I picked him up on
25 MR. KOVACIC: [Interpretation] I'm not going to take up any more
1 of your time, but I have to object to my learned friend's words. I'm not
2 testifying, I've never testified. I'm not prepared to engage in this
3 discussion in these proceedings. Documents have been seen. Mr. Petkovic
4 has spoken about that. Mr. Praljak has spoken about that. There is
5 plenty of evidence in this case that the situation is different in
6 Central Bosnia
7 how the situation differed. That would have been testifying. I just
8 said that she could not compare apples and oranges. That was my point
9 that I was making.
10 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation] If this is not
11 testifying, if this is not testifying, then I'm going to say that these
12 are not apples and pears, but just apples, and then we will move on to a
13 different thing.
14 And I'm going to remind the witness what I read. I read that
15 from the setting-up of the 4th Battalion of the Military Police, that 4th
16 Battalion was under the command of the operations zone.
17 Q. Tell me, please --
18 MS. ALABURIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, I really, really
19 have an objection now, because this is an incomplete representation of
20 General Petkovic's testimony. Bearing in mind the entire testimony, then
21 you will be clear that this was the daily execution of policing matters,
22 and that is clear. If she decides to give you a sentence after -- a
23 sentence from different documents, you will get a distorted picture.
24 I believe that my learned friend should respect the rules of
25 additional questioning. She has to say what was said during the
1 cross-examination. She should give us the page of the transcript, and
2 that would enable us to follow. Now she is being allowed to engage in a
3 new examination-in-chief, and I don't see a problem --
4 MR. KOVACIC: [Interpretation] Just one word.
5 The 4th Battalion -- the 4th Battalion of the Military Police
6 that my learned friend has mentioned in her question, she's talking about
7 a region, because that battalion was in Central Bosnia, and I never asked
8 any questions about that during my cross-examination.
9 MR. KARNAVAS: Your Honour, this is an abuse of process.
10 Normally, there should be sanctions from the Bench to the lawyers. Once
11 the President has indicated that the lawyer can go on with the question,
12 it is contempt of court, it is an abuse of process, and I suggest that
13 such be entertained by the Trial Chamber. Otherwise, we are wasting a
14 lot of time.
15 MS. ALABURIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, allow me to react.
16 My learned friend Mr. Karnavas systematically poses as an arbiter
17 in this courtroom, and he tries to teach us lessons about
18 professionalism. I don't think it's fair, I don't think it's
19 appropriate. And as far as the skills that Mr. Karnavas has or doesn't
20 have, for four years now he has been showing us, in this courtroom, what
21 he knows and what he doesn't know, and he has shown us that he's much
22 better in theory than in practice. And I would like to remind
23 Mr. Karnavas about his conduct when General Petkovic's cross --
24 re-examination started. I would like to ask the Trial Chamber,
25 respectfully, to apply the same criteria to everybody in the courtroom,
1 across the board.
2 As far as my learned friend Mr. Karnavas is concerned, and his
3 remarks, I do enjoy a status of the expert of the European Court for
4 Human Rights, and I have also received an award of the American -- no,
5 no. Your Honours, no. You have never, never reprimanded Mr. Karnavas
6 when he spoke as he did, and you have been interrupted me so many times
7 when I'm trying to defend my status and my rights in this courtroom.
8 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Let me tell you now why I have
9 asked you to stop.
10 On a personal note, I don't like lawyers criticising each other.
11 It's not the arguments between the counsel I'm interested in, it's the
12 fate of the people who are here. This is an extremely difficult and tall
13 task for me. I am not going to try these people on the basis of what
14 you've told each other, but on the merits of the case. And we are
15 talking now about the military police. What I'm interested in are
16 questions about the military police, that's it, full stop. That's why I
17 asked you to stop.
18 What I'm interested in is to know whether the military police was
19 doing -- whether it was there, what it was doing. We know that there
20 were several battalions. He is the commander of the 2nd Battalion. We
21 know that there is a 4th Battalion. Maybe it works the same way; maybe
22 it doesn't. We don't know. So please let your colleague put the
23 question, and the Bench will then deliberate on the matter.
24 We are interested in the fate of the people sitting here, the
25 accused, not the skirmishes between Defence counsel.
1 Ask your question now, Ms. Tomasegovic Tomic.
2 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation]
3 Q. I hope that you still remember what I read out to you, sir. Tell
4 me, please, where were you, in which operations zone?
5 A. Counsel, I was in the North-West Herzegovina OZ.
6 Q. Under whose command were you in that OZ?
7 A. We were under the command of the OZ headquartered in
8 Tomislavgrad, and our commander was Zeljko Siljeg.
9 Q. Who did you receive orders from for your daily operations and
11 A. Our orders came from the commander of the operations zone.
12 Q. While you were in the North-West Herzegovina OZ as an active
13 service battalion, were you engaged in combat in the North-West
15 A. Counsel, yes, we were also engaged in combat.
16 Q. Under whose orders in the OZ North-West Herzegovina?
17 A. Under the orders of the commander of the OZ.
18 Q. Tell me, please, did the commander of the North Herzegovina OZ
19 [as interpreted] engage you -- within the North-West Herzegovina OZ, did
20 he need an order on re-subordination from Mr. Coric or could he have done
21 that even without that order?
22 A. Counsel, we were part of the establishment and organisation of
23 the operation zone, and the commander of the OZ could issue an order
24 independently to give us orders anywhere in the OZ, and he did not need
25 any prior consent from the MP Administration.
1 Q. Now tell me, please, did you participate either as a
2 2nd Light Assault Battalion, which was also active in this OZ, or as a
3 2nd MP Battalion in combat anywhere outside of your operations zone; for
4 example, in the South-East Herzegovina OZ?
5 A. The units of the military police under my command participated in
6 combat in a different OZ; to be more specific, in the
7 South-West Herzegovina OZ.
8 Q. And now just briefly tell us what principle applied and was
9 respected when you were sent to engage in combat outside of the
10 North-West Herzegovina OZ; for example, in the South-East Herzegovina OZ.
11 How did that happen, under whose orders? Could you please give us the
12 whole system, how things functioned on the ground?
13 A. The commander of the OZ South-East Herzegovina sent a request for
14 the engagement of additional troops to the chief of the Main Staff.
15 MR. STEWART: Excuse me, Your Honour.
16 At the risk of being castigated for further interruptions, we do
17 once again invite the answer to which part of the cross-examination this
18 re-examination relates.
19 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Ms. Tomasegovic Tomic, could
20 you perhaps tell your colleague which part of the cross-examination this
21 re-examination relates to?
22 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation] The entire
23 cross-examination by Mr. Kovacic, day 1. He showed orders about
24 re-subordination, and he asked about the principles of re-subordination.
25 And the witness was asked to answer by just saying, Yes, or, No. This is
1 what my re-examination refers to. I'm going to show just one of the
2 documents from that part.
3 MS. ALABURIC: [Interpretation] Thank you very much, Your Honours,
4 for having received an explanation.
5 On the first day of Mr. Kovacic's cross-examination, he talked
6 about the re-subordination of light assault battalions, and my learned
7 friend is now asking about regular battalions, and whether they were
8 engaged in combat, and under what conditions. This re-examination
9 doesn't have anything to do with the cross-examination as referred to by
10 my learned friend Ms. Tomasegovic Tomic.
11 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, I'm going to
12 put the following question. I don't want to go over the same ground
14 Q. The principle that you have just described for the active-duty
15 battalion, did the same principle apply to the
16 2nd Light Assault Battalion? And then you will continue on from where
17 you left it off. We left it off with a request to the chief of the
18 Main Staff, but before that, tell me whether the same principle applied.
19 A. Yes, madam, the same principle applied, irrespective of the
20 battalion, whether it was an active-duty or a light-assault battalion.
21 Let me respond to Ms. Alaburic and say that there were no
22 so-called active-duty battalions. They were either active or not.
23 Q. And now, Mr. Andabak, let's continue. We left it off with the
24 part where you said that the commander of the OZ that needed you - in
25 this case it was South-East Herzegovina - sent a request to the chief of
1 the Main Staff. What happened next?
2 A. The Chief of the Main Staff issued an order to the MP
3 Administration for the redeployment of troops and units, and he informed
4 the OZ from which we were being sent about that same order.
5 Q. When a light-assault battalion or an active-duty battalion of the
6 military police arrived in a different operations zone, for example,
7 South-East Herzegovina, who did you report to and who was your commander
9 A. Counsel, there we reported to the OZ commander. He then
10 re-subordinated us to a commander in the territory where the -- where we
11 were deployed and whose area of responsibility that was.
12 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation] Thank you very much,
13 Mr. Andabak.
14 JUDGE TRECHSEL: Excuse me. May I just make something -- make
15 sure about something you said.
16 You said that the Chief of the General Staff would order the
17 chief of the Military Police Administration to do this or that; he,
18 himself, not via the chief of the Defence Department, but directly?
19 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Your Honours, directly, and
20 everything is based on the Chief of the Main Staff and the order by the
21 Chief of the Main Staff.
22 JUDGE TRECHSEL: Thank you.
23 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.
24 Now may we have on e-court document -- it's a document that the
25 Petkovic Defence showed you during the examination-in -- I mean the
1 cross-examination. 4D02056 is the number. And at the same time, those
2 who have a hard copy can look at document -- well, that includes you,
3 Witness. You'll have one document on your screen and one document in
4 front of you. P00143 is the second document I'd like you to look at.
5 Q. Now, we have on our screens what the Defence of
6 General Petkovic -- did I -- document P00143, what it put in its
7 document, it is provisional instructions for the work of the MP units of
8 the HVO, dated April 1992. And let's look at item 1 there:
9 "Within the HVO, the Military Police establishment shall be
10 organised within the HVO, and it shall control and command all military
11 police units belonging to operative groups, organisational units, and the
12 Military Police Administration itself."
13 We also have items 4 and 5. But you have P00143, which is the
14 original document in front of you as well, and I'm going to read out some
15 points from that document which are not contained in this summary, in
16 this two-sentence summary extracted from document P00143.
17 I'm going to read item 6 first in the general provisions section.
18 It says:
19 "Military police units," or, rather, their commanders, "shall
20 carry out all MP tasks and assignments pursuant to a request from the
21 commander of the unit of the HVO under whose composition they act --
22 within whose composition they act."
23 Now, Mr. Andabak, tell me this, and you've already said this
24 before, I believe: Who gave you your daily tasks and assignments? Who
25 issued you your daily tasks and assignments?
1 A. Counsel, we received daily tasks and assignments from the
2 commander of the operative zone.
3 Q. Did you receive them in the form of a request, which you could
4 refuse, or in the form of an order, which you, if you were a soldier, you
5 were not allowed to refuse?
6 A. It was in the form of an order.
7 Q. Now let's look at item 9 in that same document, and it wasn't
8 contained in the 4D document. Item 9 reads as follows:
9 "The Military Police Administration of the HVO is responsible for
10 the situation and professional training and combat readiness of the MP
12 "It follows, monitors, and studies the organisation and
13 establishment of military police units, and exercises control, and
14 assesses the level of training and combat readiness of the MP units.
15 Therefore, similarly, the HVO proposes measures for their improvement and
17 "The Military Police administration shall also draw conclusions
18 from the experiences gained in the work of the military police and its
19 units and incorporates them into the training of the military police
21 Now let's look at item 10, the selection of soldiers:
22 "Soldiers for the replenishment of military police units shall be
23 selected according to special standards and criteria set by the Military
24 Police Administration and the SIS and HVO administrations."
25 Item 11:
1 "The Military Police Administration shall be responsible for
2 furnishing military police units with military police equipment and
3 military police insignia while the command of the parent unit, as part of
4 which a given military police unit was formed, shall be responsible for
5 the acquisition of weapons and other materiel and technical equipment."
6 Mr. Andabak, you said several times, because we had an entire
7 discussion during the examination about the responsibilities of the
8 MP Administration, control and command of military police units by the
9 MP Administration, you spoke about administrative tasks, instructions,
10 and guide-lines, and so on, and you said that that was something that the
11 MP Administration issued orders to you about. Now, when you said that,
12 did you mean all those points that I read out, and was that the situation
13 in practice?
14 A. Yes, Counsel, that's how it was. As it is set out in this
15 document, that's how it was in practice, the responsibility of the MP
16 police on the ground.
17 Q. Now, on page 2 of 4D2056, we see P00837. That's the first
19 MS. ALABURIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, before my learned
20 friend continues, I'd just like to object to these questions, for the
21 record, because the document that we're talking about now relates
22 exclusively to the functions of control and command exercised by the
23 Military Police Administration according to its rules and regulations,
24 and at no point in time did I mean to say that the MP Administration did
25 not have other tasks. So if my learned friend wants to talk about these
1 other tasks, I think that's a waste of time, because we've all had those
2 documents and we were all able to read through them.
3 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation] There's no problem there.
4 I'll ask a direct question to the witness.
5 Q. Did the MP Administration control or command in any other way,
6 except giving instructions and guide-lines, on the subjects that we've
7 just discussed under items 9, 10, and 11?
8 A. Counsel, the Military Police Administration never ordered
9 military police units -- issued orders to military police units.
10 Q. Let's repeat this again. Who issued orders to you on the ground?
11 A. On the ground, it was the commander of the operative zone in
12 whose area I was located who issued orders.
13 Q. And who was -- who did the commander of the operative zone get
14 his orders from?
15 A. It was the chief of the Main Staff who issued orders to him.
16 Q. All right, Mr. Andabak, thank you.
17 Now let's look at page 2, and P00837 is the document that is
18 quoted; that is, instructions for the work of the military police units.
19 And it is dated November 1992, and only three items, I believe, are
20 mentioned there as well.
21 Mr. Andabak, I'm not going to go back to this document. We've
22 already seen it during the examination-in-chief. But tell me this:
23 These instructions, did they change anything in relation to control and
24 command of the military police?
25 A. Everything stayed the same, just as it was set out in the first
1 set of instructions.
2 Q. On that same page, we have an excerpt from the military police
3 establishment, and you'll find it in your binder. It is document P00957.
4 In that document -- or, rather, a sentence was extracted from that
5 document, and it says that:
6 "The Military Police Administration controls and commands all MP
8 Before we look at this document 957 in the original, tell me
9 whether anything changed with respect to control and command of the
10 military police on the ground with this kind of establishment and
12 A. According to this organisation, the only change was that the
13 1st Active-Duty Battalion was formed, which was directly linked to the
14 MP Administration.
15 Q. All right. When you say it was directly in contact or connected
16 with the MP Administration, what does that mean?
17 A. It means that the unit could go into action in all the operative
19 Q. And who gave the order for a unit to enter an operative zone?
20 A. The Military Police Administration.
21 Q. Does the MP Administration issue the order at its own initiative
22 or was the procedure different?
23 A. The procedure was as I described it earlier on. There was a
24 legitimate request from the commander of the operative zone where the
25 unit was to be sent, so once again the line is: The Main Staff, and then
1 the Main Staff issues an order to the MP Administration to deploy men to
2 the operative zone to carry out the assignment.
3 Q. And when this 1st Active-Duty Battalion arrives in the operative
4 zone, who is in charge of it there, who commands it there?
5 A. The battalion, when it arrives, is also commanded by the
6 commander of the operative zone whose area of responsibility it is, and
7 they act according to his instructions exclusively.
8 Q. All right, thank you. Now, I want to ask you about something
9 else, briefly.
10 You -- well, in response to a question from the Petkovic Defence
11 on page 34 of yesterday's transcript, you said the following: You said
12 that the platoons of the brigade military police were abolished and that
13 you think that there was a new organisation put in place. Do you
14 remember saying that?
15 A. Yes, I do.
16 Q. Now, if you look at the fourth document in your binder - the
17 document number is P07018 - and it says "The Ministry of Defence." The
18 date is the 3rd of December, 1993, and it says:
19 "The Military Police Administration establishment thus far was
20 not efficacious, functional, operational, and efficient."
21 And then it goes on to say:
22 "I hereby order:
23 "1. Immediately undertake the establishment of the following MP
25 In item 2, it says that:
1 "The military police battalions attached to brigades, HVO
2 brigades, cease to be within the composition of the HVO brigades and
3 become part of the 2nd and 3rd Battalion of the Military Police of the
5 Tell us now, please, Mr. Andabak, is this the kind of
6 establishment and organisation you had in mind in this document, and it's
7 dated the 3rd of December, 1993, when you were speaking about the new
8 type of organisation?
9 A. Yes, Counsel, but I couldn't remember the exact period, the exact
11 Q. Very well.
12 JUDGE PRANDLER: Excuse me, Counsel, to interrupt you. I would
13 only like to ask the following questions.
14 When we speak about the orders, we, of course, know that, as a
15 whole, the police -- military police was mainly responsible for two major
16 tasks, according to my opinion, at least; that is, to maintain law and
17 order in the given military zone -- operative zone, and, on the other
18 hand, as a number-two task, they were also taken and ordered to
19 participate in the actual battle, battle-field, and to do their duties
20 while there.
21 Now, my question is the following: that when we speak about the
22 orders in general, could we -- or could the witness distinguish between
23 two sets of orders, that is, number 1, related to the maintenance of law
24 and order, and, on the other hand, were there orders which related only
25 to their tasks in the battle-field, that is, the military duties? It is
1 my question.
2 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Your Honour, well, one could say
3 that there were two types of orders. However, in our daily execution of
4 duties, we only received one single order which applied to combat or, for
5 example, an order to escort a convoy, or that something had to be let
6 through. All that fell within the scope of one single order applying to
7 the OZ. For example, the 2nd Company would be sent into combat, and the
8 other companies would be sent to the check-points, to step up patrols in
9 the town because the situation had deteriorated with respect to law and
10 order or the number of crimes committed, and so on and so forth.
11 JUDGE PRANDLER: And in this connection, then, your answer, that
12 this order always came from the Main Staff, isn't it what you have
13 already stated? That is, in a single order which you referred to, that
14 single order, orders, have always been given by the Main Staff; is it
15 what you say?
16 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Your Honour, when I was on the
17 ground, I received orders from the OZ commander, and the OZ commander
18 most probably received some of the orders from the chief of the
19 Main Staff.
20 JUDGE PRANDLER: Thank you very much.
21 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: Very well, Mr. Andabak.
22 Q. And now I would like us to look at a few orders with respect to
23 the control and command. They are in your binder. We will start with an
24 order which you will find in your binder as the sixth document from the
25 beginning. I am going to be asking you whether you received the order
1 and whether you executed that order.
2 This is an order issued by the Main Staff. I apologise. P00377
3 is the number, an order issued by the Main Staff on the 10th of August,
4 1992. This is a ban on the entrance of military formations into the zone
5 of responsibility. This was sent to all commands -- to all military
6 police commands and to all civilian police commands, and underneath it
7 says: "To be delivered to Livno." Did you receive this order?
8 A. I received this order via the command of the OZ.
9 Q. Did you execute this order?
10 A. We executed and reported back to the OZ commander.
11 Q. We can skip one document in order to avoid wasting time.
12 Could we now see number P00458. This was issued on the 8th of
13 September, 1992, again by the Main Staff. And it says in the document:
14 "I order all humanitarian aid convoys are to be allowed to go
15 through, and, if necessary, they should be secured by police forces.
16 "No humanitarian aid transport should be checked if not approved
17 by the HVO Main Staff."
18 Item 5:
19 "The HVO command is obliged to immediately solve any
20 misunderstanding and irresponsible conduct of individuals.
21 "Military police and civilian police commands should be informed
22 about this order."
23 Mr. Andabak, did anybody inform you about this order? If, Yes,
24 who was it, and did you act upon this order, did you execute it?
25 A. Yes, the OZ commander briefed us about this order, Mr. Siljeg
1 did, during one of the briefings. I, as a battalion commander, informed
2 the check-points. I related the order word for word to them, and then I
3 reported back to the OZ commander about the execution of the task.
4 Q. Again we can skip a document, and let's look at the following
5 one, which is P01673, another document from the Main Staff. This is
6 dated 16 March 1993
7 to special-purpose units. It says:
8 "A ban on the use of HVO units for military police assignments."
9 Tell me, please, did you ever see this order before?
10 A. Yes, I did. I saw it in the OZ command.
11 Q. Very well. And now let's go --
12 THE ACCUSED PETKOVIC: [Interpretation] A technical intervention,
13 if I may, please.
14 Your Honours, just a technical intervention, please. When it
15 came to the first order, I believe that it was sent by the -- that the
16 witness became the battalion commander in November, and as we go on, he
17 was no longer battalion commander, he was in Ljubuski. Could we please
18 be more precise and say exactly what he saw and what he didn't?
19 MS. ALABURIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, we have already drew
20 your attention to the fact that over a long period of time in 1993, this
21 witness performed other functions. He was not the commander of the
22 2nd Battalion, and the same applies to the dates of all the orders. So
23 all the questions [as interpreted] by this witness are very questionable
24 in his capacity as the commander of the 2nd Battalion.
25 THE ACCUSED PETKOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour
1 Judge Antonetti, just one more intervention, if I may, please.
2 My colleague Mr. Coric has already used the word "the so-called
3 counsel" for my counsel, and I don't think that's fair. Your Honour, I
4 believe that it is a lesser insult than if somebody calling my entire
5 unit "the so-called unit." Please, I believe that it is not fair, on the
6 part of my learned -- of my friend Coric, to call my counsel "the
7 so-called counsel."
8 MS. ALABURIC: [Interpretation] Please, Your Honour --
9 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] One moment, Ms. Alaburic.
10 My remarks concerning Defence counsel also apply to the accused.
11 Let's avoid people being incriminated here. What we are interested in is
12 the merits of the case.
13 Mr. Coric, if someone said "the so-called lawyer," that is not
14 acceptable, because lawyers are fully-fledged lawyers.
15 MS. ALABURIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, I just want to say
16 that I did hear what Mr. Coric said behind my back. And for the
17 integrity of my client and my own integrity, I would like this to be
18 recorded. I heard the comments made by Mr. Coric. He made comments over
19 the past few months many times, but I didn't feel the need to react. I
20 understand that he is in an exceptional situation now and finds it
21 difficult to control his own actions, so I understand.
22 THE ACCUSED CORIC: [Interpretation] Very well. I'm going to
23 address counsel as "Dr. Alaburic," and not "Counsel," because I see that
24 she has some opinions about my mental health.
25 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Ms. Tomasegovic Tomic, you may
1 proceed. I believe Colonel Andabak had something to say.
2 Mr. Andabak, you have the floor.
3 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Your Honours, General Petkovic is
4 saying an untruth here, just as is Ms. Alaburic. So the previous
5 document was the 8th of September, 1992, and I was the commander of the
6 2nd Battalion -- or, rather, assistant chief of the MP Administration for
7 the operative zone. And as I've already said, I co-ordinated between --
8 I acted as co-ordinator between the 2nd Light Assault and 6th Military
9 Police Battalions. I'm the person who received orders from the commander
10 of the operative zone, and I then issued orders down the line to my
11 subordinates in the operative zone for execution of the orders.
12 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation]
13 Q. To avoid any misunderstandings, Mr. Andabak, could you tell us
14 what post you held in September 1992, because we're dealing with
15 September 1992, the document mentioned by Mr. Petkovic?
16 A. The commander of the 2nd Military Police Battalion of the
17 Operative Zone of North-West Herzegovina
18 MS. ALABURIC: [Interpretation] Now, this last document is dated
19 March 1993, when the gentleman was head of the General and Traffic Police
21 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation]
22 Q. Mr. Andabak, would you look at the previous document, dated the
23 16th of March, 1993, and tell us why you said -- and have you seen -- why
24 you said what you said, and have you seen the document? And if you have,
25 in what capacity did you see it?
1 A. Madam Counsel, it was only at the end of March that I came to the
2 post of assistant chief, and with the hand-over of duty and take-over of
3 duty, and because of battalion -- combat assignments. And later on, my
4 functional duty was chief of the Department for General and Traffic MP,
5 so that I acted as co-ordinator and co-ordinated with all the units in
6 the Croatian Republic of Herceg-Bosna
7 ones, I mean.
8 Q. Fine, Mr. Andabak. Now look at the next document, which is
10 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] One moment. There's perhaps
11 something which you have forgotten to mention.
12 Colonel, the document 1673, if I understood correctly, on the
13 16th of March you were still heading the 2nd Battalion. Had you seen
14 this document at the time, document P01673?
15 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Your Honour, yes, I have seen the
17 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] That's all I wanted to know.
18 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation]
19 Q. Now let's look at P02911 next, please. This is a Main Staff
20 document dated the 22nd of June, 1993, and it refers to the engagement of
21 forces in Prozor. It was sent to the brigades and to the military
22 police, Valentin Coric -- to Valentin Coric, and it says:
23 "In order to ensure the defence of Prozor from the Muslim forces,
24 bring in urgently in the course of the day:"
25 And then in item 5, it says:
1 "Military police - 80 to 100 men."
2 Mr. Andabak, when you spoke about the orders from the Main Staff
3 that were addressed to the MP Administration, linked to the deployment of
4 MP units in other zones, is this the kind of order you had in mind?
5 A. Yes, Counsel, this is one of those orders.
6 Q. Now let's look at the next document, which is 5D05117. The
7 document is a Main Staff document for the forward command post of Prozor.
8 The registration number is 2/93, and please remember that number. It
10 "Examine the UNHCR convoy and the MCK."
11 It was sent to the Command of the North-West Herzegovina
12 Operative Zone/Military Police, and it says: "I hereby order:"
13 Now look at page 2 of that document. It's a document of the
14 forward command post of the Operative Zone of North-West Herzegovina, as
15 we've said, and it says: "Conveying the order received from the HVO
16 Main Staff," and the reference number is 2/93; reference number 2/93,
17 forward the order received from the HVO Main Staff.
18 Now, Mr. Andabak, did you receive this order, and have you ever
19 seen it before? Did you see it?
20 A. Well, I'll be very specific. Looking at the date and the duty
21 that I performed in both -- both in February and in July, I was in the
22 operative zone on assignment as battalion commander and as assistant
23 chief of the Military Police Administration, which means that these
24 orders referred to the command of the operative zone and the military
25 police, which means that we received these orders from the commander of
1 the operative zone.
2 Q. Fine, Mr. Andabak. Let's move on to the next document. It is
3 P06825, once again a Main Staff document dated the 23rd of November,
4 1993, sent to the military districts and forward command post in Prozor.
5 It is an order which relates to the convoy carrying humanitarian aid and
6 its passage, free passage for the convoy.
7 Have you seen this order before, Mr. Andabak?
8 A. I remember this order, too, Counsel.
9 Q. Very well. Now we're going to skip a document and move on to
10 P03889, which is a document put to you by the Petkovic Defence. From
11 this document -- well, you were shown a portion of that document - you
12 don't have to read the whole of it - a part which is to be found on
13 page 4, last paragraph. And in the English, it's page 6, second
14 paragraph from the bottom.
15 Before I go on to the document, I'm going to ask you the
16 following: During the cross-examination of the Stojic Defence -- by the
17 Stojic Defence, you responded to questions linked to your departure on
18 the 30th of June to Mostar, and this was recorded on transcript
19 page 50973. You said that you arrived in Mostar on the 30th of June, at
20 the invitation of Mr. Petkovic and pursuant to his order.
21 Now, before we look at the document, could you tell me how -- in
22 what way did Mr. Petkovic invite you to attend? Did he use a courier,
23 did he send a written order?
24 MS. ALABURIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, may we clear up what
25 post the witness held and what post he was in when he came to Mostar on
1 the 30th of June?
2 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation] Only if the Trial Chamber
3 wishes to ask.
4 Q. But tell me, Mr. Andabak, how did he invite you? I mean,
5 technically, how did he invite you?
6 A. He called me up on the telephone.
7 Q. Now look at the page I mentioned, and it was shown to you by the
8 Petkovic Defence.
9 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] You were called over the phone.
10 What was your position?
11 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I was chief of the Department for
12 General and Traffic Police Affairs.
13 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation]
14 Q. It says here:
15 "In this fighting --" this was put to you by the Petkovic
17 "In this fighting in Mostar, members of the Livno military
18 police," et cetera.
19 Now, when that was put to you by the Petkovic Defence, you said
20 that what it says here was incorrect, whereas this is your report, so I'm
21 interested in knowing why you said it's not correct. Can you explain
22 that to me?
23 A. Well, I said that it was not correct because the counsel just
24 wanted to hear a yes-or-no answer. Had I said, Yes, or had I said, No, I
25 would not have been allowed to explain at all how and why.
1 Q. All right. Fine, Mr. Andabak. Can you explain to us now why?
2 A. Counsel, I was first called up by the defence minister to send a
3 unit. And as I said, I -- as I said earlier, I had a problem with the
4 command of the operative zone about sending a unit, because the command
5 of the operative zone said some ugly things about it, about that. And
6 then General Petkovic phoned later, and I acted upon orders, because I
7 thought that the situation had been resolved between the operative zone
8 and the HVO's staff and headquarters.
9 Q. All right, Mr. Andabak. Now, on that same page, the Petkovic
10 Defence asked you to focus on an excerpt which says that in Gornji Vakuf,
11 with the military police of Livno, that there was Mr. Rade Lavric there
12 too, who was at the time Mr. Coric's deputy. Now, to avoid any
13 misunderstandings, I'm going to ask you a direct question. Who issued
14 orders to you when you were in Gornji Vakuf on assignment? Who did you
15 receive your orders from?
16 A. In Gornji Vakuf, I received orders from the brigade commander of
17 Gornji Vakuf mostly, and as battalion commander, I was in the operative
18 zone fairly frequently, where I reported on my combat operations, and I
19 was given certain assignments from the commander of the operative zone as
21 Q. Very well, Mr. Andabak. Now, during the cross-examination by the
22 Petkovic Defence, you were asked about disarmament and the isolation of
23 Muslims in Livno in July 1993. And the Prosecutor also asked you
24 questions about that today. And the Prosecution and I, too, showed you
25 the same report by Mr. Tucak, so let's look at the next document, which
1 is 5D05094.
2 This order was issued on the 21st of July, 1993 by the brigade
3 commander, Stanko Vrgoc. Did you receive this order? Could you just
4 have a look at it? Look at the first part of this order, where it says:
5 "Together with the Ferdo Sucic Battalion, Tactical Group 1 of our
6 brigade is to begin to disarm and search for facilities held by Muslims
7 along the Podhum-Golinjevo axis, bring in all men of between 16 and 60
8 years of age, except for the disabled and war victims, and requisition
9 all weapons ..."
10 Did you receive this order?
11 A. Yes, I did.
12 Q. So far, you've mentioned several times that you acted upon the
13 brigade orders or the brigade order. Is that the order that you had in
15 A. Yes, that's the order that I had in mind. And as I've already
16 told you, I acted upon the order received from the commander of the
17 Petar Kresimir IV Brigade.
18 Q. Very well, Mr. Andabak. The Praljak Defence showed you document
19 P03068. I don't want to call it up. I'm saying this just for the
20 transcript. The document is dated 1st of July, 1993. It was Mr. Coric's
21 order which concerned the military police unit under the command of
22 Mr. Perica Turalija. The date on the order was the 1st of July.
23 Could you please look at the following document in your binder,
24 which is 5D04394. The document is dated 31st July 1993, which means 30
25 days after the previous document issued by Mr. Coric. It is titled
1 "Instructions to the MP Administration," signed by a commander,
2 Brigadier General Slobodan Praljak, and it was sent to the Military
3 Police Administration in Mostar, to Mr. Valentin Coric personally. And
4 it says "Perica Turalija," and the document reads as follows. I'm going
5 to read the first two paragraphs:
6 "The order you issued on the 29th of July, 1993, number," so on
7 and so forth, I don't want to read the whole number, "on the suspension
8 of the MP platoon commander, Perica Turalija, and his relief of duty,
9 will not be implemented.
10 "Perica Turalija's MP platoon is under my operational command,
11 and it is carrying out all tasks assigned to it."
12 Tell me, please, Mr. Andabak, do you know that after the 31st of
13 July, Perica Turalija's platoon was in Prozor, performing tasks under the
14 operative command of the commander, Brigadier General Slobodan Praljak?
15 A. Yes, Madam Counsel, Perica Turalija continued to discharge the
16 duties of the 3rd Active-Duty Company commander.
17 Q. Very well. And now let's look at the last document in this set,
18 which is P00721. This document was shown to you by the Prosecutor. It
19 is a document issued by the Municipal Staff of Prozor on the 8th of
20 November, 1992. This is a report. Somewhere in the middle of the
21 report, it says:
22 "For the aforementioned reasons, the command is working on
23 appointing a new military police commander."
24 Mr. Andabak, do you know which military police commander this
25 refers to? Did they appoint anybody or not? Do you know what this is
1 all about?
2 A. Madam Counsel, the command was not happy with the work of the
3 then commander, Mr. Jozo Mestrovic, and they were seeking possibilities
4 to replace him and bring in a new person. As far as I know,
5 Mr. Ilija Franjic came later and replaced him.
6 Q. Very well, Mr. Andabak. We will no longer need any documents,
7 and I have just a few more questions to ask you.
8 If you remember, yesterday the Prosecutor showed you P01130,
9 which is a handwritten document issued by the SIS of the 3rd Brigade. Do
10 you remember that? And you answered the Prosecutor that the 3rd Brigade
11 most probably was in Gornji Vakuf in January. Tell me, please, did you
12 see the 3rd Brigade in Gornji Vakuf in January?
13 A. As far as I can remember, Counsel, I saw one part of the brigade.
14 I don't know what establishment of that brigade it was. They were
15 deployed around a place called Pidris, in the direction towards the
16 entrance into Gornji Vakuf, a little before Uzricje, on that side.
17 Q. Very well. Mr. Andabak, yesterday you were asked about another
18 document at great length when the unit returned to Livno and then
19 celebrated at the bus-stop by shooting in the air. Tell me, did you
20 participate in the war against the Serbs? I'm referring to units from
22 A. Of course, yes, we did, Counsel, from the very beginning in 1992.
23 Q. Very well. And when you returned from combat missions after
24 having fought against the Serbs, did you celebrate in the same manner?
25 A. Not only the military police units, but all units. There was
1 shooting in every village.
2 Q. Very well, Mr. Andabak. And now just very briefly with regard to
3 the Stojic Defence questions, just for the transcript, I would like to
4 say that you were shown document P01615. I don't want to call it up.
5 And that document concerned your visit to the Heliodrom and the
6 investigation of the meat [indiscernible]. The number of the document is
7 P01615. According to that document, that was in March 1993.
8 Did you go to Heliodrom again or was that your only visit to the
9 barracks at Heliodrom?
10 A. As far as I can remember, I believe that I did go once again to
11 inspect the work of the military police at the gate.
12 Q. When was that?
13 A. I can't remember the exact date.
14 Q. And what season was it? Was it before the summer of 1993, before
15 May, after May 1993? If you don't remember, it doesn't matter.
16 A. No, I don't. I can't answer.
17 Q. Very well. In answering questions about that document, referring
18 to releasing a person from the prison, a member of an HVO unit, on
19 page 50978 of the LiveNote, it has been recorded that you said that the
20 prison in Ljubuski was under the military police at the time. And then
21 on page 50979, you said, about the same matter, that you did not have any
22 responsibility over that soldier or the prisons held by the brigade
23 military police. In that respect, could you please tell us, and can we
24 clarify this matter, do you know who secured the prison in Ljubuski?
25 A. Counsel, it is certainly an error in interpretation. The prison
1 in Ljubuski was secured by the brigade military police from Ljubuski.
2 Q. And who was in command of that brigade military police in
4 A. Counsel, the commander was the brigade commander.
5 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation] Thank you very much,
6 Mr. Andabak.
7 Your Honours, this brings my re-examination to an end.
8 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Mr. Andabak, your testimony has
9 just ended. I would like to thank you, and personally and on behalf of
10 my colleagues, for having come at the request of Mr. Valentin Coric to
11 take the stand. I wish you a safe journey home, and I shall ask the
12 usher to escort you out of the courtroom, please.
13 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Your Honours, if you will allow me,
14 I would also like to thank you, the OTP, the Defence teams defending the
15 accused. And, finally, I would like to say that in the courtroom I don't
16 see people who speak behind people's backs when those same people are not
17 here. Thank you.
18 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Mr. Stewart.
19 MR. STEWART: Your Honour, it's really just this: I suppose, you
20 could say, in English, "put down a marker."
21 [The witness withdrew]
22 MR. STEWART: We do note, and perhaps we're advising the
23 Trial Chamber to ponder and everybody to ponder before we get further
24 witnesses, but we do know that the practice adopted in relation to the
25 length of the re-examination appears to be very different from the
1 practice that was consistently adopted during the Petkovic Defence case,
2 where we were -- we were generally invited to indicate how long we would
3 be, and then, for practical purposes, were held to that figure, with, of
4 course, from time to time modest extensions. That hasn't happened here.
5 It was a long re-examination. We'll all, in due course, be examining the
6 content of it, so I say nothing at all about that, but it does seem that
7 a rather different practice has been adopted, and this is a -- well, it's
8 a preliminary protest, really, and a hope that there will be a consistent
9 practice applied in relation to this accused consistently with the
10 practice that was applied in relation to our client.
11 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well.
12 Next week, if I understand correctly, two witnesses are going to
13 come and testify. The witnesses will be at the disposal of the Chamber.
14 Ms. Tomic.
15 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation] As things stand now, they
16 should be here, and they are not two, but three. They're all 92 ter
17 witnesses, and there's three of them.
18 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Could you please give me the
19 names again so that I can check with the documents that I have?
20 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation] Yes, Your Honour.
21 The first one is protected, and his pseudonym -- I don't know,
22 Judge Trechsel. Should we go into private session and I shall say the
24 JUDGE TRECHSEL: I'm sorry, I was verbally expressing the
25 pseudonym, which is, "NO."
1 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.
2 It has been a long and hard day, and a joke will not go amiss.
3 The first witness's pseudonym is NO, and the other two are
4 Mate Jelcic and Pero Nikolic. I have their schedule before me. The
5 first one is NO, the second one is Mate Jelcic, and, finally,
6 Pero Nikolic.
7 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] I would like to thank everyone,
8 and we will resume our hearing on Monday at quarter past 2.00.
--- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 5.49 p.m.
10 to be reconvened on Monday, the 22nd day of March,
11 2010, at 2.15 p.m.