1 Tuesday, 30 March 2010
2 [Open session]
3 [The accused entered court]
4 [The Accused Praljak and Pusic not present]
5 [The witness takes the stand]
6 --- Upon commencing at 9.02 a.m.
7 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Registrar, could you please
8 call the case. Thank you.
9 THE REGISTRAR: Good morning, Your Honours. Good morning,
10 everyone in and around the courtroom.
11 This is case number IT-04-74-T, the Prosecutor versus
12 Prlic et al. Thank you, Your Honours.
13 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Thank you, Registrar.
14 Today is Tuesday, the 30th of March. I would like to greet the
15 witness, Mr. Vidovic, as well as all the accused that are in the
16 courtroom and those that are not in the courtroom. I would like to greet
17 the counsels, all the members of the OTP who are in the courtroom, as
18 well as everybody else assisting us in the courtroom.
19 We are going to proceed with the examination-in-chief. We have
20 34 minutes left.
21 Ms. Tomasegovic Tomic, you have the floor.
22 WITNESS: ZVONKO VIDOVIC [Resumed]
23 [Witness answered through interpreter]
24 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation] Good morning,
25 Your Honour, and everybody else in the courtroom.
1 I'd like to apologise to everybody for skipping some documents
2 yesterday, so we're going to go through them today, and perhaps we'll
3 need a little time to find the documents I wish to address.
4 We looked at 5D04350 yesterday. And after that, we're going to
5 skip -- having looked at that, we're going to skip six documents and go
6 to 5D02146.
7 Examination by Ms. Tomasegovic Tomic: [Continued]
8 Q. [Interpretation] Mr. Vidovic, you told us yesterday that you and
9 the other members of your department were involved up at the front-line,
10 that you held the line at the Bulevar. Can you tell us now whether that
11 had any effect on your work?
12 A. It certainly did affect our work as a service.
13 Q. Have you managed to find the document?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. This is a special report signed by you, sent to Mr. Coric, and in
16 the report, in the first sentence, it says that:
17 "From Mr. Josip Djogic, we have learned about the decision on the
18 order of Mr. Rade Lavric that employees and operatives of the Mostar
19 Centre should go to the front defence line confronting -- facing the
21 Do you remember this, and can you tell us what type of decision
22 it is, what type of order it is, and so on?
23 A. This is a decision made by the operative zone, that is to say,
24 ordering us to go up to the front-line. And we were against that, but
25 through our battalion we said that we had to respect the decision taken
1 by the operative zone, although we challenged it.
2 Q. Would you look at the next document now, please, the very next
3 one, P05471. This is a document signed by Mr. Coric. It is about the
4 engagement of the police up at the front-line. And in paragraph 3 from
5 the end of the document, on the last page, it says the following:
6 "Terror and crime of all types is on the increase, and that is
7 worrying, and threatens to lead to anarchy and lawlessness in the free
9 "I claim with responsibility that we are not able to perform even
10 regular military police tasks with the forces remaining after the
11 deployment of the military police on front-lines, not to mention complex
12 interventions and other significant military police tasks."
13 Tell me, please, do you agree with Mr. Coric?
14 A. That is precisely what I said earlier on. Based on the previous
15 document, we were already up at the front-line, we were already on our
16 way. Instead of our military police tasks, regular ones, we were already
17 moving towards the front-line, so this is precisely what I was saying
18 earlier on.
19 Q. All right. Now we're going to skip quite a few documents and
20 move towards the end of the binder to document P03651. It's towards the
22 You told us yesterday -- P03651. You told us yesterday that you
23 went to Heliodrom because there were detainees there whom you either kept
24 there for police processing or the investigative judge had ordered them a
25 period of detention while the investigation was ongoing. Now, this is a
1 document signed by you, and I'm going to read certain sections of it and
2 then I'm going to ask you some questions about it.
3 The document is titled "Decisions Adopted at the Meeting Held in
4 Ljubuski on the 22nd of July, 1993, at the Military Police
5 Administration." In the document, you go on to say:
6 "With regard to the meeting held on the 22nd of July, 1993
7 Ljubuski, at which, in addition to the chief of the Military Police
8 Administration of the HZ-HB, Mr. Valentin Coric, all department chiefs in
9 the Military Police Administration were present, and we would like to
10 inform you of the following for the sake of clearer co-operation in
12 "The activities and competence of the Crime Prevention Department
13 were reiterated once more at the meeting. It was assessed that direct
14 co-operation with the active police (military police and MUP) and the
15 District Military Court
16 and there was no overlap, while our co-operation with officers of the
17 Central Military Remand Prison must be indirect. Immediacy is achieved
18 through the District Military Court. We conduct criminal processing
19 until we assess that there are elements to move criminal proceedings and
20 the SIS co-operation is necessary. Therefore, all the individuals who
21 are detained and against whom no criminal proceedings have been initiated
22 or no criminal report has been filed, pursuant to the chief of the
23 Military Police Administration, are unknown to our department. This
24 refers solely to the large number of Muslims who were brought
25 indiscriminately to the Central Military Remand Prison building and then
1 forgotten. Through inertia, the Crime Prevention Department conducted
2 interviews with over 2.000 people, but not a single one of them was of
3 any interest with respect to crime. The question was posed. Mr. Coric
4 was asked about the duties -- about our duties and was the reason for him
5 issuing the order for us to start dealing with crime."
6 Tell me, please -- in the first paragraph you state that:
7 "In order to ensure clearer future co-operation, we should like
8 to inform you of the following:"
9 Who is it that you are informing by compiling and sending this
11 A. I'm writing this document to the head of the Military Remand
12 Prison at Heliodrom.
13 Q. I'd like you to tell me now, with respect to the third paragraph,
14 the problem of interviews with over 2.000 people were mentioned. Do you
15 remember what interviews these were?
16 A. Sometime in July 1993, through our military police battalion, we
17 received an order telling us to report to Heliodrom and that we should
18 make a list there of all the detainees who had been disarmed of the HVO
19 who were Muslims and whose units had isolated them and put them in
21 Q. Would you pause there for a moment. Let me just ask you, you
22 said it came in through the battalion. Was the order issued to you by
23 the battalion?
24 A. The battalion received the order via the operative zone, and it
25 just forwarded it on to me -- to us based on some hierarchy or chain of
2 Q. You said that you made a list, drew up a list. What kind of list
3 was that?
4 A. On the premises of the Military Remand Prison of Heliodrom, we
5 took down the basic details of the persons there; names, surname, and
6 where they were from, just the basics. And we did that together with the
7 MUP and SIS and some workers from the Heliodrom Prison itself.
8 Q. Do you happen to remember the name of the person from SIS who did
9 this job with you?
10 A. As far as SIS is concerned, it was the SIS of the brigade; that
11 is to say, Mr. Ivica Pusic was mostly present when we worked together
12 with SIS.
13 Q. Tell me, please, when those lists were compiled, did you take
14 them with you, did you hand them over to someone? What happened to them?
15 A. Those lists were handed over, through the warden of the prison,
16 to the Centre for Social Work and for Displaced Persons. There was a
17 woman called Biljana Nikic, I remember, and we actually compiled those
18 lists for her. And I state very precisely here that those lists weren't
19 of any interest to us with respect to crime-solving.
20 Q. Let's go back two documents. P05128 is the document I'd like us
21 to look at now.
22 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Just a second.
23 Mr. Vidovic, the document that we've just seen, P03651, is an
24 important document. We see that you drew up a list of 2.000 people, and
25 it seems that according to you, those people had no connection with the
1 crimes in question. Should we infer from that that they should have been
3 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Your Honours, I didn't decide about
4 that, but I was given a task to do which I didn't feel I ought to.
5 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Well, you were given this task,
6 and it's to your credit, but who was in a position to free those people?
7 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] At that time, I didn't know under
8 whose authority they were or who had the authority to do that, because
9 they were just disarmed members of the Croatian Defence Council and their
10 direct, immediate commanders had authority over them. I only knew things
11 up to that level. And I was only interested in the people I worked with
12 in the Crime Department, so this task prevented me from going about my
13 daily duties and carrying those out.
14 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] One last question.
15 Among those 2.000 people that were interviewed, were they all
16 soldiers from the HVO or were there, amongst those, civilians as well?
17 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] The ones that I interviewed and
18 whose details I took down, they were HVO soldiers of Muslim ethnicity in
19 the vast majority of cases.
20 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] You're saying "in the vast
21 majority of cases." Why? Were there also HVO soldiers that were not of
22 Muslim ethnicity that were also detained?
23 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Well, I can't remember exactly now,
24 but I assume there were cases like that too. But I have to mention that
25 we're dealing with July 1993 here. That's the period.
1 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation] We said we'd move on and
2 go to P05128.
3 Q. This is a document signed by the lady you mentioned a moment ago,
4 Biljana Nikic?
5 A. I haven't got the document.
6 Q. The document number is P05128. I misspoke and said "go forward
7 two documents," but you need to go back two documents.
8 This is a document, as I was saying, signed by Biljana Nikic,
9 whom you mentioned earlier on. You can take a look at it. We see that
10 it was sent to the Crime Investigation Department, Mostar, among others.
11 Do you recognise the document? Are you familiar with it?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. Can you tell us what it's about?
14 A. Ms. Biljana Nikic is contacting our department and asking us,
15 from the aspects of crime investigation, to check the criminal
16 responsibility of these two persons, Ifet Selimovic and Ibro Maric, and
17 it's sent to the Crime Investigation Department of Mostar, as we can see.
18 Q. When you say to check out the criminal responsibility, does that
19 mean that you're checking your records to see if they have a criminal
21 A. Yes, precisely, that's right.
22 Q. Now look at the next document immediately after that one, which
23 is P05371. This is a certificate, stating your name, but it says that it
24 is your name; however, somebody else signed it. And it says here that
25 there are no disciplinary or criminal proceedings instituted against the
1 persons on this list. Tell me, what kind of a certificate is this? Is
2 that the one that you spoke of a moment ago?
3 A. This is precisely an answer to the questions that were put to us
4 by the Office for Refugees and [indiscernible]. I see that someone else
5 signed this, Damir Cipra, I think. That is my colleague from the office;
6 however, that is of lesser importance. This is exactly the way we issued
7 these certificates, as to the request of the office. That is to say,
8 once we check that certain persons, from the request that they had sent
9 us, and when we are sure that there are no criminal proceedings against
10 these persons, then we issue such a certificate.
11 Q. Very well. Sir --
12 JUDGE TRECHSEL: Excuse me. I would like to make an observation
13 on the translation. Here, in the English text, at least, one speaks of
14 criminal or misdemeanor proceedings, and the translation for
15 "misdemeanor" was "disciplinary," but that is wrong. "Misdemeanor" is
16 minor crimes, but it is clearly not disciplinary. And as we are in the
17 field of the military, I think it's important to make sure that the
18 distinction is correct.
19 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.
20 You're quite right.
21 Q. Now I would like to ask you to move three documents back.
22 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Just a second.
23 Witness, the question of translation is important. Could you
24 perhaps read, in your own language, what it says when the you hereby
25 certify that those people have not been subjected to any proceedings?
1 Could you please read that in your own language, please, because I want
2 to be sure.
3 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] "Certificate." Your Honour, you
4 want this document, 3371, P371 [as interpreted]; right?
5 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Yes, it is P03571, yes.
6 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] "Certificate":
7 "It is hereby certified that this centre is not conducting
8 criminal or misdemeanor proceedings against the persons from the
9 above-mentioned list and request submitted by your office. It is issued
10 for the purpose of regulating release from the Mostar SVIZ and for travel
11 abroad, as follows:"
12 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well, thank you.
13 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation]
14 Q. Let us just explain in order to avoid any kind of
15 misunderstanding. You heard what His Honour said a few moments ago.
16 Misdemeanors are minor crimes that a misdemeanors court deals with. It
17 is not disciplinary violations that are meant by that; right? You're
18 nodding, but you have to give a verbal answer.
19 A. Yes, yes, I agree.
20 Q. Misdemeanors are, for example, disrupting public law and order,
21 drunken driving, et cetera?
22 A. Precisely.
23 Q. Now we're going to go back a few documents, three documents to be
24 precise, so we're going back to 5D032 -- 4226, rather, 04226. It
25 consists of several pages. On the first page, there is a reply to a
1 request, and on the remaining few pages there are bulletins for wanted
2 persons. These are documents sent to the District Military Court
4 "In response to your requests, we are forwarding wanted notices
5 for the following persons:"
6 Can you tell us what this is about?
7 A. This has to do with a request from the District Military Court
8 that asked us to submit to them the bulletins that we issued for certain
9 persons who were wanted because criminal proceedings had been initiated
10 against them.
11 Q. Very well. And now I see that we are -- you are submitting these
12 documents. Do you know what the Military Court does with them
13 afterwards? Do they submit these bulletins to someone or what?
14 A. Within the domain of their authority, they submit these documents
15 to check-points on roads and also to commanders of the units that these
16 persons may come from, and also to border-crossing points; that is to
17 say, all locations that could be relevant for the possible arrest of
18 these persons.
19 Q. Let us go to the document before that, 5D02040, please. This is
20 the record of an interview, and it shows that you were interviewing a
21 person on the premises of the Heliodrom, and the person's name is
22 Alija Lizdo. Tell me, how did that come about? How come you were
23 interviewing this gentleman? Were you processing him, or is there some
24 other reason for that?
25 A. We co-operated with the SIS all the time, and we received
1 information from them that at the Heliodrom, to the best of their
2 knowledge, there was a person who was of interest to us. My colleague,
3 Toni Ramljak, and I went to interview the mentioned gentleman.
4 Q. Tell me, when you say that he was of interest to you, that means
5 that he could have some knowledge of certain crimes or perhaps that he
6 was responsible, himself?
7 A. Yes, so that ultimately we may issue -- or, rather, file a
8 criminal report against him.
9 Q. Do you remember whether this person was of interest to you?
10 A. We interviewed the mentioned person, and we did not find any
11 elements related to a crime. I would just like to add here that by then
12 I had already known Mr. Alija Lizdo as a journalist. To this day, I'm on
13 very good terms with him. I see him very often. That is the only thing
14 I can say.
15 Q. Tell me, after you realised that he was not of interest to you,
16 did you have any authority over that person after that, once you realised
17 that he was of no interest to you?
18 A. No. Our only job was to compile a record of that interview and
19 to send it to the mentioned -- or, rather, to take it to the mentioned
20 gentleman so that he could read it and sign it in his own hand.
21 Q. Did you provide information to that effect, that he was of no
22 interest to you?
23 A. Yes, through the daily report we referred to our work with that
24 person, and we said whether he was or was not of interest to us, from the
25 point of view of the Crime Department.
1 Q. Now we're going to skip a few more documents, and we're going to
2 advance six documents, as it were. P0 --
3 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] I don't understand why this
4 journalist was being detained. I can see that he was part of the ABiH
5 since May 1992, that he was in charge of propaganda for the 1st Brigade
6 of the ABiH. And you questioned him relating to media matters. Who had
7 arrested him? Why was he arrested?
8 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I don't know at that moment why he
9 had been detained and for what reason. Quite simply, he was at
10 Heliodrom, and I interviewed him at Heliodrom. However, I cannot give an
11 answer as to why he was at Heliodrom and who detained him. We only
12 received information from the SIS that he could be of interest to us from
13 the point of view of the Crime Department. However, we did not find any
14 relevant elements, and that is why the record looks as it does.
15 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Mr. Vidovic, I'm somewhat
16 surprised by your answer, because you conducted a very comprehensive
17 interview, over two pages, approximately. There's a lot of information
18 in here. The interview must have lasted quite a while, and you didn't
19 even ask yourself why this person was a prisoner?
20 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I simply don't know why he was
21 detained. I did not detain him. And from the point of view of our
22 department, he was not of interest to us at all. None of us would have
23 detained him, and I did not have any information that would lead me to
24 detain him, or anyone from my department. So he was not of interest at
25 all from the point of view of the Crime Department.
1 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well.
2 You have 12 minutes left, Ms. Tomasegovic Tomic.
3 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.
4 Q. Let us move on to document P03038 [as interpreted]. That is six
5 documents ahead. Have you found it? It is a report that you are sending
6 to the Military Police Administration on the 6th of July. We see that it
7 was received on the 8th of July, 1993. And this report says -- P03238 is
8 the document that I'm looking for. And in the one-but-last sentence,
9 around the middle of the paragraph, it says:
10 "I have to add one more thing; namely, that during the course of
11 the day yesterday, on the premises of the SVIZ, a written report was
12 received, signed by Colonel Obradovic, pointing out that without his
13 signature, no visits or releasing of detainees from the SVIZ Heliodrom
14 could be carried out. I seek further instructions from the Military
15 Police Administration regarding this order."
16 Do you recall this, and what can you tell us in this regard?
17 A. This is a special report, because in our regular work, the
18 regular work we carried out on the premises of the Heliodrom, we had
19 certain duties every day; that is to say, to deal with detained soldiers
20 from the scope of our authority and to file criminal reports if there
21 were grounds for that. Here, we have a new situation. People from the
22 administration of the Heliodrom are suggesting to us that we turn to our
23 own administration, because as of the following day already, we would not
24 be allowed to enter the premises of the Heliodrom. From the very next
25 day, we would not be allowed to enter the Heliodrom. We would have to
1 ask Colonel Obradovic for special permission. By then, he was near
2 Stolac, and that is over 40 kilometres away from Heliodrom.
3 Q. Tell me, did you do something at that point of time? But please
4 give me shorter answers because I have very little time left.
5 A. Through our battalion, we addressed the operations zone directly
6 and we explained the complexity of our situation, and we asked for
7 Colonel Obradovic -- or, rather, the operative zone to allow us to enter
8 the premises and conduct interviews; that is to say, we, the employees of
9 the Crime Department.
10 Q. Tell me, did you receive such permission and did you carry out
11 your work as previously?
12 A. Soon after that, we were allowed to enter, along with a special
13 permission that he sent the administration of the Heliodrom, that the
14 Crime Department employees could enter the Heliodrom and carry out their
15 duties every day.
16 Q. Now I'd like us to move to P05054.
17 JUDGE TRECHSEL: I would like to draw the attention to a mistake
18 probably in the translation. On line 10 of the previous page, it was
19 translated that there arrived a written "report" of Mr. Obradovic, but
20 I think it was an order rather than a report, "zapovjed."
21 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, it is
22 correct, it had to do with an order.
23 JUDGE TRECHSEL: Thank you.
24 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation] P05054 is the document
25 we're looking at now. It is a report dated the 14th of September, 1993
1 We see that it's sent to you. We see that under number 3.
2 Q. And it says here:
3 "On the 11th of September, we received information from the
4 so-called private prison in Bijelo Polje."
5 Please tell me whether you recall this, and do you know anything
6 about this private prison, Bijelo Polje.
7 A. P050 --
8 Q. P05054.
9 A. As regards this document, I just have to add that the prison
10 warden was writing to me non-stop. It is very important to know that he
11 was writing to me throughout his work, although this did not directly
12 pertain to me, but he was writing to me non-stop. So he wrote to me
13 about this prison in Bijelo Polje, and I, through the command of the town
14 defence, I tried to find out what was going on, because Bijelo Polje was
15 on the front-line. It is physically impossible to go there except in an
16 armoured vehicle that was used to transport military troops to the
17 front-line, so all the way up to the very last point that could be
18 reached, and then this armoured vehicle would be taken. I'm sending this
19 document to Mr. Mijo Jelic, who is replying to me that this is not his
21 After that, I tried to go to Bijelo Polje, but I was returned
22 from the check-point, because I wished to know, in view of the fact that
23 I first heard about this in my work, this was the first time that I heard
24 of the existence of a private prison. After I was returned by soldiers
25 from this last check-point before entering this armoured vehicle, I
1 addressed the operative zone in writing, and very soon I got a response
2 from them, stating that that was within the scope of their authority and
3 that they would check what this was all about. Also, I sent them this
4 document from Mr. Bozic.
5 Q. Now I'd like us to move four documents ahead to document 5D042 --
6 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] This is a document we've seen
7 with another witness already -- [B/C/S spoken on English channel] --
8 actually a private prison. You have just explained to us that you tried
9 to discover more about -- [B/C/S spoken on English channel].
10 Let me repeat. Witness, we have already seen this document with
11 another witness. At the time, I was surprised to see that there was a
12 private prison. You have just told us, by giving us a lot of detail,
13 what you actually did to try and elicit this question.
14 What I would like to know is this: Did you send a report to
15 Valentin Coric to let him know what was going on? Did you actually do
17 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] As I said a moment ago, since this
18 was a new situation as far as I was concerned, I tried to investigate.
19 And based on my sources for a day or two, I even wanted to go to the
20 location, and I told you how one could get there. It was the front-line,
21 so if you use an APC
22 So I did what I could within my remit. Let me repeat, I informed the
23 commander of the defence of the town, first of all. When he said it
24 wasn't in his area, then I informed, through the battalion, the operative
25 zone, and all the reports from the battalion were sent officially, with
1 the official post, to the operative zone. I did not inform the
2 Military Police Administration at that time because I considered that I
3 could get all the necessary information and instructions from the
4 operative zone because we were dealing with the front-line and combat
6 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] It took you approximately three
7 minutes to tell me that you did not send a report to Mr. Coric. You
8 could have told me this in a split second. This is what I wanted to
10 Can one, therefore, conclude that Mr. Coric was then not aware of
11 the existence of this private prison?
12 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Well, not from me.
13 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well.
14 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation]
15 Q. Let's move ahead now several documents until we reach 5D04233,
16 the third document from the end of the binder.
17 Have you ever heard of somebody called Reuf Ajanovic?
18 A. I have heard of Reuf Ajanovic, A-j-a-n-o-v-i-c. It's somebody
19 who was in the Convicts Battalion, and he introduced himself as some sort
20 of internal security officer of the Convicts Battalion, a sort of SIS
21 person from the notorious battalion.
22 Q. When you went to Heliodrom, did you see that person there?
23 A. When we went to Heliodrom, the practice was that through the
24 prison warden, we would announce our arrival.
25 Q. Just briefly, did you see him or not?
1 A. We saw him at Heliodrom, on the premises of the prison.
2 Q. Do you know whether Mr. Reuf and Mr. Praljak knew each other?
3 A. I saw Josip Praljak several times with Mr. Reuf Ajanovic sitting
4 together in an office.
5 Q. Was there an investigation underway including Mr. Ajanovic and
6 Mr. Praljak together?
7 A. Sometime in the autumn of 1993, some documents went missing from
8 the Military Investigative Prison of Heliodrom, Remand Prison of
9 Heliodrom, and I think that an investigation was underway investigating
10 the two men about these circumstances.
11 Q. I have two more questions for you. We're going to look at just
12 one document, to P03613. Did you know that the place Otok Vitina, that
13 there was a prison there?
14 A. I've just heard of it, but I was never there physically.
15 Q. Do you know someone called Kresimir Tolj?
16 A. Yes. He worked in the Crime Department of Ljubuski and later on
17 headed the Crime Investigation Department of the Ljubuski section, like I
18 was in Mostar, so my colleague and opposite number.
19 Q. Did you see him frequently, Mr. Tolj, and co-operate with him?
20 A. We co-operated fairly frequently in our line of business,
21 especially after July. So throughout October -- throughout August and
22 September we frequently co-operated.
23 Q. Tell me, as head of the department yourself, did you have the
24 authority to appoint the warden of a prison? And if so, did you ever do
1 A. That was not within our remit. We never appointed any warden of
2 any prison, nor did we have the authority to appoint prison wardens.
3 Q. Now look at document -- the one in front of you, which is signed
4 by Mr. Kresimir Tolj. And it says: "Re. Appointment of the head of the
5 Military Prison Otok." And from the document, it follows that Mr. Tolj
6 is, in fact, appointing a man by the name of Kreso Medic. May I have
7 your comments on that, because you've just told us he didn't have the
8 authority to do that? Have you heard about this?
9 A. Never, I've never heard about this. And it's an impossible
10 situation, as far as I'm concerned. I see that it says "Military Police
11 Administration, Crime Prevention Department," and it doesn't say
12 "Ljubuski," whereas Kresimir Tolj worked in Ljubuski. And then there's a
13 handwritten number and the letters "FK." We didn't have any letters like
14 that, no "FK." So I'm bewildered by this document. It's not clear to me
15 at all. And I'm sure that Mr. Kresimir Tolj couldn't do anything like
16 this, occupying the post that he occupied.
17 Q. Do you know the man Kreso Medic mentioned here?
18 A. No, I don't know who the person is.
19 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honours.
20 Thank you, sir. That completes my examination-in-chief.
21 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Witness, I have just another
22 question for you.
23 We can see that you have addressed a number of reports to the
24 military prosecutor. We also know that when some crimes are committed,
25 the investigating judge came to the scene. What I wanted to know is
1 whether you had any contact with the military prosecutor, the
2 investigating judge, and the military judges. Were these people with
3 whom you had talks about the investigations or were these people you
4 never saw?
5 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I can give you the following answer
6 to that question: In our service, we had all the telephone numbers and
7 addresses of the persons that you mentioned, who we contacted if we
8 needed to call them for anything, an eye-witness account or whatever. We
9 just contacted them in writing, but we did have a few meetings, that is
10 to say, our department, the MUP, and the representatives of the military
11 prosecutor and military investigating offices, working to uncover as many
12 crimes as possible and deal with as many criminal reports filed as
13 possible. So some people from the courts and the Prosecutor's Office I
14 did meet at those meetings.
15 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well.
16 Now, as far as other Defence teams are concerned, Mr. Karnavas.
17 MR. KARNAVAS: Good morning, Mr. President. Good morning,
18 Your Honours. Good morning to everybody in and around the courtroom.
19 I do have some questions for the gentleman. If I may begin,
20 Your Honour.
21 Cross-examination by Mr. Karnavas:
22 Q. Good morning, sir. My name is Michael Karnavas and with me is
23 Ms. Suzana Tomanovic, and together we represent Dr. Jadranko Prlic. I
24 just have a few questions, and if you could be rather brief, I would most
25 appreciate it. There are only, I believe, four documents we will look
2 But before we get to the documents, as I understand from
3 listening to your testimony, there was co-operation between the military
4 police with the civilian police concerning investigations of crimes; is
5 that correct?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. And can I take it, then, from your answer that to some extent the
8 civilian courts were functioning at the time?
9 A. They were functioning, just like the civilian police was.
10 Q. All right. Now, before I get to the documents, I want to ask you
11 a couple of preliminary questions.
12 When a soldier left the front-line, was he still a soldier?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. When he left the front-line, and on his way home, for instance,
15 committed a crime, would he be considered a civilian or a soldier at that
16 point in time?
17 A. To the best of my knowledge, he was at all times a soldier, so he
18 would be considered, in your case, a soldier.
19 Q. And I take it, in that case, it would be the military police who
20 would be responsible, at least to some extent, to do the investigation.
21 A. It was always his commander who was responsible for a soldier,
22 and the military police would be involved if a crime had been committed.
23 Q. All right. And I take it a commander, a commander, never
24 informed you that you were not to investigate his soldiers once they left
25 the front-line because they were civilians.
1 A. I've already repeated this. The commander -- if his soldier
2 committed a crime, it was the commander's duty, if he knew who the
3 perpetrator was, to report him, to file a criminal report against him.
4 Q. Right. But my question is a little more precise than that, and
5 what I want to know is whether you were ever instructed by anyone, any
6 commander, low, medium, or way up high at the Main Staff, that once a
7 soldier leaves a front-line, he's no longer a soldier, he's a civilian,
8 and therefore you need not treat him as a soldier, you need not
9 investigate the case.
10 A. We did not receive instructions like that, because we considered
11 him to be a soldier, always a soldier.
12 Q. And just one last question on that. I assume that commanders
13 were aware of that. In other words, this is not such specialised
14 knowledge that only military police officers would be aware of that; the
15 commanders would be aware of that as well?
16 A. I didn't understand. What for?
17 Q. Well, you indicated that they continued to be soldiers. I assume
18 that the commanders knew that.
19 A. I assume they did, yes.
20 Q. All right. Now, if we go to the first document, and they may not
21 be order, but there are only four. It's 5D04362, 5D04362. I believe
22 it's the last document in your folder, the very last one. Have you found
24 A. Yes, in the English version.
25 MR. KARNAVAS: Okay. Usher, if we could -- there is no --
1 usually, there should be a B/C/S version right after the English, but if
2 you don't have it, that's fine.
3 THE WITNESS: Okay, okay.
4 MR. KARNAVAS: All right.
5 Q. Now, we can see that this is a document dated 26 May 1993. We
6 see that it's been sent to the Defence Department and as well to the
7 Operative Zone South-East Herzegovina. Now, I want you to first -- and
8 we see that this is a report.
9 Now, picking up where we left off, if we could go towards the
10 bottom of the page at least in English, where it says:
11 "At 2000 hours ..."
12 We see that:
13 "... a soldier without identity card was brought to the
14 Police Administration by members of the Police Administration security,
15 who was in a drunken state, armed with Argentina gun. He said he was
16 from the 1st Battalion, Capljina. I called military police and handed
17 him to them, together with the Argentinean gun number ..."
18 And so on. Do you see that part, sir?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. Now, would this be a normal procedure? If a civilian police
21 officer were to detain a soldier, would they then turn him over to the
22 military police?
23 A. Well, this came within the remit of this police station, police
24 administration, that among other things they should hand over the soldier
25 to the military police. And this is a soldier from Capljina found in
1 Mostar, if I understood you correctly.
2 Q. Okay. I just wanted to make sure that this was the correct
3 procedure. Is that a yes or no?
4 A. Yes, yes.
5 Q. Now, if we go to the next -- if we go all the way up to the text,
6 where it says: "At 1800 hours," we see that Puce Nikola came to the
7 Police Administration, an employee of the civilian prison, and reported
8 that there were two detainees in investigation with him, but they were
9 transferred to the Heliodrom due to combat activities, from where
10 somebody let them go, and that would have been Josip Praljak.
11 Now -- and my question is: Why would this occur? Why would they
12 take civilian prisoners to the Heliodrom, keeping in mind that this is
13 26 May 1993
14 A. Here it says some Puce Nikola, working in a civilian prison.
15 I think it's the civilian [Realtime transcript read in error "military"]
16 prison that we, in Mostar, call Celovina. And at this point in time, the
17 26th of May, he was up at the front-line. So that's Santic Street, where
18 heavy fighting was going on, and I think that prison was relocated
19 because of the war to Heliodrom, the entire prison was moved, because it
20 was impossible for it to function because it was right up at the
21 front-line. The prison wall was up at the front-line.
22 MS. TOMANOVIC: [Interpretation] I apologise, but I have to
23 correct the translation, which I believe it is important to do at this
24 stage. On page 25, line 10, the witness said that Puce Nikola was
25 working in a civilian prison, and in the transcript it was erroneously
1 recorded as "military prison," which is an important difference. Thank
3 MR. KARNAVAS:
4 Q. And just real quickly before we leave this document, yesterday
5 you were asked several questions about identifying, perhaps, the
6 ethnicity of individuals. If we look at this report and we see that
7 there are 17 names that were injured, and can you identify whether, on
8 this list of 17, there are any of Muslim Bosniak nationality; according
9 to the name, that is?
10 A. Yes, one can see that. Number 1, a Bosniak Muslim; number 6,
11 Fedad Salkovic, Bosniak Muslim; number 16, Fuad Kadija, a Bosniak Muslim;
12 and number 17, Fatima Mujcic, a Bosniak Muslim.
13 Q. Thank you. Now if we go to the next document, and this document
14 is 5D04152. 5D04152. And my apologies for not having them in order. I
15 just reorganised my cross this morning.
16 Do you have it, sir? And you should have the B/C/S version
17 perhaps after the English. Do you have it?
18 A. Okay.
19 Q. Okay. Now, I spoke to you earlier about whether the courts were
20 functioning, and you indicated that you thought that they did. Now, I
21 want you to look at this document. We see that this is an indictment,
22 and if we look at -- if you look at it very quickly, and you'll see a
23 number 2, for instance, the victim seems to be an Esad Hadziosmanovic,
24 and I assume he's a Bosniak Muslim from the name. Now, from looking at
25 this document, can you tell us whether, to the best of your knowledge,
1 this is what an indictment would have looked like at that time, given the
2 situation as it existed in Mostar?
3 A. Looking at the indictment from the Senior Public Prosecutor's
4 Office, I can't tell you what that should look like. All I can say is at
5 the beginning of 1994 I left the unit I was working in until then, went
6 to Zagreb
7 indictment that the Senior Public Prosecutor's Office in Mostar would
8 issue. I assume that it's correct.
9 Q. Now, if we look at the name Esad Hadziosmanovic, and it talks
10 about in Mostar, and you are from Mostar, do you know this gentleman ?
11 A. I don't know.
12 Q. And what about the street, where it looks like -- where it says
13 that -- where his residence is?
14 A. The street is in West Mostar, Brace Bosnjic Street.
15 Q. Thank you. If we look at the next document, which is 5D04241,
16 5D04241, this is dated 20 October 1993
17 "Senior Public Prosecutor's Office, Mostar." If you go to the last page,
18 we see that there is a station commander, Mladen Alpeza. Do you know
19 this gentleman, by any chance, or are you familiar with the gentleman?
20 A. I know him personally, because at the time we co-operated with
21 the Police Station of Mostar quite often. Yes, I do know him.
22 Q. And in looking at this document, granted as to when you left and
23 what your function was with the military police, would this confirm, at
24 least in your mind, what you were saying earlier, that the civilian
25 police was investigating as the military police was?
1 A. Yes, precisely.
2 Q. Now, the last document I want to look at 1D03155, but before we
3 look at the document, itself, I need to ask you one or two questions.
4 Now, keeping in mind that you left, I believe, in late 1993 from
5 the military police, did there ever come a time, in 1996 and thereafter,
6 where it became known in Bosnia-Herzegovina that arrests of suspected war
7 criminals could not take place without prior authorisation from this
8 particular Tribunal?
9 A. Can you repeat the beginning of your question, please?
10 Q. All right. Did there come a time in 1996 when it became known
11 that suspected war criminals, or those who were suspected of committing
12 crimes during the war, could not be arrested and indicted without the
13 international community giving its authorisation?
14 A. Well, I don't know that.
15 Q. All right, okay. Did you ever hear about the rules of the
16 road --
17 MS. WEST: Excuse me, Mr. Karnavas.
18 Good morning, Mr. President, Your Honours.
19 I understand the question that was just asked regards procedural
20 matters after 1996, a period of time where this witness was no longer in
21 the HVO and certainly was not involved with international matters or
22 prosecution. I understand that Mr. Karnavas is probably about to ask
23 questions about 1903155. This witness had no authority to answer them.
24 MR. KARNAVAS:
25 Q. Did you ever hear about the Rome Agreement and the rules of the
2 A. I heard of the Rome Agreement, but just as a citizen. That's all
3 I can tell you. I don't know anything more about the agreement, as such.
4 Q. All right. And when you say "as a citizen," you don't know any
5 of the particulars; is that what you're telling us?
6 A. Yes, that's right. I've heard of the name, "Rome Agreement," but
7 that's all. I don't know any details of the agreement or anything like
8 that. I didn't know about it then, and I don't know about it now.
9 Q. And I take it if I were to ask you whether you heard about the
10 rules of the road, you would give me the same answer.
11 A. Yes, approximately.
12 MR. KARNAVAS: Thank you, sir.
13 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well, thank you.
15 MS. NOZICA: [Interpretation] Good morning to all in the
16 courtroom. May I just have a moment, please.
17 Could the usher please take this material so that we could
18 organise our examination.
19 Once again, I would like to greet all in the courtroom.
20 Cross-examination by Ms. Nozica:
21 Q. [Interpretation] Witness, these are the documents that we will be
23 Before I start putting questions to you, I would just like to
24 make a correction in the transcript. My learned friend Mr. Karnavas
25 said, on page 24, in line 2, in relation to document 5D4362, obviously
1 mistakenly said that this report was sent to the Defence Department.
2 However, we see from the document that it was actually sent to the
3 Operations Zone of South-East Herzegovina. We can see that on the basis
4 of the receipt stamp. That's the only correction I had.
5 Witness, could you please look at the first document in my
6 binder, and that is P665. There aren't very many documents, and it's
7 going to be easy for us to find our way.
8 This is an order of Mr. Bruno Stojic, dated the 26th of October,
9 1992, which says:
10 "Pursuant to the agreement reached with the representatives of
11 the International Red Cross, the EU, and UNPROFOR monitors ..."
12 He ordered that:
13 "All prisoners of war held by the HVO be unconditionally released
14 from HVO military investigation prisons."
15 He said that this would take place on the 30th of October, 1992
16 in the presence and through the mediation of the representatives of the
17 International Red Cross and EU and UNPROFOR monitors, from the HVO
18 prisons in Mostar, Livno, and Tomislavgrad.
19 In relation to this topic, I'm going to show you another
20 document, and then I'll put a question.
21 The next document is P677. This is a report that
22 Mr. Valentin Coric sent to Mr. Bruno Stojic on the 31st of October, 1992
23 It has to do with the release of prisoners on the 30th of October, and it
24 says -- or, rather, there's a reference to Mr. Stojic's order. And could
25 we just look at the last paragraph of the document, which is a
1 sublimation of everything that matters. So --
2 THE INTERPRETER: Interpreters note: We can no longer hear
3 counsel. There are other microphones on.
4 MS. NOZICA: [Interpretation] Thank you.
5 Q. Livno, Mostar and Tomislavgrad. In the presence of the
6 representatives of the International Red Cross and the EU and UNPROFOR
7 monitors, it says that a total of 363 prisoners were released. Out of
8 them, 285 prisoners have been sent to the so-called Yugoslavia, and 78
9 have been released and are still "on our territory." That is what is
10 stated in the document.
11 Mr. Vidovic, do you have any knowledge to that effect, and do you
12 know that on the 30th of October, 1992, prisoners of war were
13 unconditionally released?
14 A. Let me say the following: This is when I started working at the
15 Crime Department of the Military Police. I know about these
16 unconditional releases, that they did take place: As a matter of fact, I
17 was at the Heliodrom on one day and I saw, with my very own eyes, how
18 these buses were leaving. I did not take part in this directly, but I do
19 know that this did happen.
20 Q. Mr. Vidovic, tell me, who were these prisoners of war? According
21 to your information, who were they?
22 A. These were imprisoned members of the Serb Army, the Yugoslav
23 People's Army, who were taken prisoner in the summer of 1992 by the HVO.
24 Q. It was the TO that was fighting with the HVO in the summer of
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. I assume that these were joint prisoners.
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. Now I'm going to ask you to look at document 1D -- let me just
5 see whether you can confirm something for me. 1D2435. Have you found
7 This is an agreement on the release and transfer of prisoners
8 from Bosnia-Herzegovina, and it has to do with these persons that we
9 referred to just now. The Ministry of Foreign Affairs is sending this to
10 Minister Susak on the 2nd of October, 1992, but let us look at the first
11 page of this document. As far as I know, you can follow, in English,
12 what it is that I'm asking you about.
13 It is obvious that the agreement was reached. We see that on
14 page 1. And there is a reference to the persons who were present on that
15 occasion. The third name is Mr. Sito Coric, representing Mr. Boban.
16 We are going to skip the actual agreement, and please let us go
17 to Annex 1. That is roughly page 6.
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. I'm repeating the name of the document, 1D2435.
20 A. Mine says "10."
21 Q. It's all right. Have you come to the page where Annex 1 is?
22 A. "Activities after --"
23 Q. Sorry that the pages haven't been numbered. There is a number at
24 the bottom of the page. It should be 1D51-0487.
25 A. 87?
1 Q. Have you found it? It says "List of places of detention,
2 according to information given by detaining parties. Since we saw from
3 the previous report there was a reference to Mostar, Livno, and
4 Tomislavgrad, and we see that here under number 2; right? We see those
5 places? Very well. Could you please just give us a verbal answer,
6 because just nodding cannot be recorded in the transcript.
7 In footnote 1, it says that all detainees from Capljina,
8 Tomislavgrad and Livno would be transferred to the Mostar Prison --
9 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation] Just a moment, I would
10 like to say -- I would like to correct them. It says that they had been
11 transferred. It's the perfect tense.
12 MS. NOZICA: [Interpretation] Thank you for your correction.
13 Q. You saw that in Mostar, that they were leaving the Heliodrom?
14 A. I saw the buses that were leaving the Heliodrom, the buses with
15 these prisoners of war who were about to be exchanged.
16 Q. Let us just confirm something else. Could we please have a look
17 at Annex B. It is two pages later. 1D51 is the page, 0490. There is a
18 reference here to places of detention and possible routing. There is a
19 reference to Mostar down here. On the next page, we see a reference to
20 Tomislavgrad and Livno.
21 Finally, my question, Mr. Vidovic: Can you confirm that just as
22 we saw in this agreement, that this agreement, indeed, was a basis for
23 the release of the prisoners whom you saw and who were released on
24 Mr. Stojic's orders?
25 A. Yes.
1 Q. Could you now please look at another document, P619. Have you
2 found the document?
3 A. The 22nd of October, 1992?
4 Q. Yes. This is a daily report of Mr. Valentin Coric for the 22nd
5 of October, 1992. I would be interested in paragraph 2. I'm going to
6 ask you about paragraph 2. It says:
7 "According to the order of the head of the Defence Department, on
8 the basis of a decision made of the Presidency of the HVO, we captured
9 the following features in town during the day: The Post Office building,
10 the building of the MUP ..."
11 And so on. And the end of the penultimate paragraph says:
12 "In the entire action, no one was wounded or killed. Some people
13 were brought in by force, without fire being opened."
14 Mr. Vidovic, I remember that you started working at the
15 Crime Department sometime in the beginning of October. Tell me, have you
16 heard of this operation?
17 A. I did hear of this operation. It was a security operation that
18 was basically aimed at the following. We see a reference here to the
19 Post Office building, so these are the vital organs of the town of
20 Mostar. If we look at the date, the 22nd of October, 1992, that would
21 roughly be the time after direct fighting against the Serb forces had
22 stopped and life was slowly returning to the town of Mostar. Some
23 telephones had just started working. We have had a bit of electricity by
24 then in apartments. So I think that this was a security operation that
25 was just meant to stop certain groups from messing with the Post Office
1 and other important buildings, if I can put it that way. There is a
2 reference here to the fact that there were no persons wounded, no
3 fatalities, that fire was not opened.
4 Q. Mr. Vidovic, my understanding was that this had to do with a
5 police action in order to secure some vital facilities.
6 A. Precisely.
7 Q. Could you please explain to Their Honours what the Post Office
8 looked like - and that was certainly a vital facility - at the moment
9 when the conflict was over between the HVO and the BH Army, on the one
10 side, and the Serb forces, on the other side? What did the Post Office
11 look like?
12 A. The Post Office and all the vital buildings and facilities in
13 Mostar had already been shelled in April, May, and June 1992. The Post
14 Office had been shelled, and it had to be renovated; not only the Post
15 Office. Department stores were set on fire due to the indiscriminate
16 shelling in 1992. Also, churches were set on fire by the indiscriminate
17 shelling that took place. People were killed all the time by
18 indiscriminate shelling.
19 I have to add here that my own father was killed in July 1992 and
20 that he was a casualty of indiscriminate shelling.
21 So I repeat, the Post Office, like all other key buildings and
22 institutions in the town of Mostar
23 Q. Very well. Tell me, from the point of view of security, was
24 there a large number of people in town? After these first clashes, was
25 there an increase in crime, and did thieves, criminals, unauthorised
1 persons, break into these buildings? I mean, I know you were wounded at
2 the time, you were a citizen. So to the best of your knowledge, what
3 happened? What was the situation like after the conflict with the Serbs
4 in Mostar?
5 A. If you followed what I said yesterday carefully, you would have
6 heard that there were these big trade centres for technical equipment
7 that refugees ultimately moved into. The town was full of refugees.
8 When these people arrived, the security situation became far more complex
9 than it would have been otherwise.
10 Q. Very well. Mr. Vidovic --
11 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Just a second.
12 Witness, my apologies. It took me a while to put this question
13 to you, but you just said that your father was killed in July 1992. Your
14 father was living in which part of Mostar at the time?
15 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yesterday, you asked me, and I told
16 you that we lived in the western part of town, in the part of town that
17 is called "Rondo."
18 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well. As far as you know,
19 did the Serbs carry on shelling the city of Mostar, and especially
20 Western Mostar, but also East Mostar, during the course of 1993?
21 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] The Serb forces shelled Mostar
22 throughout the war, without any difference between the eastern and
23 western side. So throughout the war, after the month of June, when they
24 withdrew with their forces from the eastern part of town. That is to say
25 that we had this border on the Neretva. After they withdrew from the
1 plateau above Mostar, from Podvelezje, they shelled the town of Mostar
2 all the time, indiscriminately, without taking time into account or the
3 number of shells that had fallen.
4 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] As far as you know, between
5 January 1993 and December 1993, was there, in West Mostar, victims,
6 Croats, that is, that fell under Serb shelling?
7 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I think that that was the case.
8 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] One last question.
9 Yesterday, you said that there were several thousands of Muslims
10 in West Mostar. As far as you know, amongst this Muslim population in
11 West Mostar were there any victims of Serb shelling between January 1993
12 and December 1993?
13 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Well, I cannot give an answer to
14 that, whether this was amongst the Muslim population only. But I know
15 that among all of the citizens of Mostar, including the western part,
16 there were victims of the Serb artillery.
17 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well, thank you.
18 MS. NOZICA: [Interpretation] Your Honour, by your leave, I see
19 the time, but I just have two or three short questions in relation to
20 this document and then we can take the break.
21 Q. Mr. Vidovic, we are going back to this now. The Honourable Judge
22 asked you about 1993, but we're going back to October 1992. Tell me, in
23 that period in Mostar, were there any clashes with the Army of
25 A. Are you referring to the period of this document?
1 Q. Yes, and later on for as much as you know.
2 A. As I said a moment ago, after the HVO, together with the
3 Mostar Battalion, took part in the operation to liberate Mostar in
4 mid-June 1992, we held the line facing the Serbs, the Serb enemy, and
5 Serb Army, together on the Podvelezje Plateau. And until the conflict
6 broke out on the 9th of May, we held the line together facing the Serb
7 Army; the whole length of the Mostar battle-front, which stretched from
8 the northern entrance to town to the southern exit from town, the hills
9 around Mostar in the eastern part of Mostar.
10 Q. Mr. Vidovic, although you didn't expressly say that in response
11 to my question, but we can conclude that there were no clashes between
12 the HVO and the BH Army from that period right up to May, as you said?
13 A. That's right, there were no conflicts until the 9th of May, 1993,
14 between the members of the Mostar Battalion and the HVO forces in Mostar.
15 Q. Mr. Vidovic, just one more question on that subject. Do you know
16 whether the HVO took part with the BH Army in this period, roughly, that
17 is to say, around October 1992, in any larger military operation against
18 the army -- or, rather, the Serb Army?
19 A. I know of one particular operation. I don't know what it was
20 called, but there was a military operation which was launched sometime at
21 the beginning of November 1992, I believe, in the area above Blagaj. And
22 Blagaj is a place which is 12 kilometres away from Mostar, roughly
23 south-east of Mostar, and the object of that operation was to move the
24 front-lines of the Serb Army towards Nevesinje.
25 Q. Mr. Vidovic, was that operation led together with the BH Army and
1 the HVO; did they work together, to the best of your knowledge?
2 A. The Mostar Battalion and the HVO of Mostar took part together in
3 the operation.
4 Q. If I tell you that it was Operation Bura, does that refresh your
6 A. Yes, that's it, and I think it was November 1992.
7 MS. NOZICA: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour. I'll
8 continue after the break.
9 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Let's have the break.
10 --- Recess taken at 10.34 a.m.
11 --- On resuming at 10.58 a.m.
12 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [No interpretation]
13 [In English] You have the floor.
14 MS. NOZICA: [Interpretation]
15 Q. Mr. Vidovic, please take a look at the following document in the
16 binder, 5D2013. Have you found it?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. Mr. Vidovic, yesterday, during your evidence on page 8, lines 14
19 through 16, you spoke about Zeljko Dzidic and the information that you
20 had, that he was suspended at some time in April 1993. Can you confirm
22 A. Yes, he was suspended because of a row he had with some soldiers
23 from Siroki Brijeg.
24 Q. We have this document before us. It's entitled "Conclusion."
25 HVO of the municipality of Siroki Brijeg, at its meeting dated
1 23 April 1993
2 Siroki Brijeg Battalion, and, with relation to that, adopted the
3 conclusion that the HVO of Siroki Brijeg condemns the brutal and cruel
4 act of the military police toward the soldiers of the Siroki Brijeg
5 Battalion, which happened on the 15th of April.
6 In item 2, they request the competent bodies to suspend Commander
7 Zeljko Dzidic of the military police, and the launching of an official
8 investigation in order to clarify this incident, and they request that
9 the competent authorities act urgently and report on what has been done.
10 Mr. Vidovic, is that the incident that you mentioned which
11 happened between Zeljko Dzidic and the Siroki Brijeg Battalion?
12 A. Yes, that is this very incident.
13 Q. I'll take you back to your job now within the
14 Crime Prevention Department in Mostar. And please take a look at
15 document 5D5022. That's the following document.
16 This is a criminal report drafted by your department, dated the
17 21st of August, 1993, against Jeton Berisa. He was also a member of the
18 Convicts Battalion Krusko, and he is in detention, which follows from the
19 information below his name. The second person's name is Drazenko Farc.
20 There is a description of the offence. These two persons allegedly went
21 to the apartment of one Ziga - that's his nickname - of Muslim ethnicity
22 in order to steal some objects from that apartment. The incident
23 happened in the night of 12 to 13 August 1993. You qualified this
24 offence as violating a private home, the privacy of the home.
25 Can you remember this incident, and did your section work on this
2 A. Yes, this is a document of our section. This incident happened,
3 and we processed it in our section.
4 Q. Please take a look at the following document --
5 JUDGE TRECHSEL: I'm a bit surprised that this should be the
6 incident which prompted the letter of Siroki Brijeg, because in that
7 letter they speak of cruel behaviour, and breaking into a house is
8 certainly against the law and all, but it is not exactly a brutal and
9 cruel act. So, Witness, can you explain this discrepancy or can you tell
10 me what I misunderstood?
11 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, you're
12 referring to a different document. This document of Siroki Brijeg is
13 totally unrelated to the document in which breaking and entering is
14 mentioned. My learned friend has passed on to another topic, and this
15 other document, which is four months older, has nothing to do with it.
16 These are two different things.
17 JUDGE TRECHSEL: Thank you, I'm sorry.
18 MS. NOZICA: [Interpretation] Thank you for this intervention,
19 Ms. Tomasegovic. I was at a loss because I never saw the words "cruel
20 act" in this document.
21 Q. Now, please take a look at document P6873.
22 Mr. Vidovic, today and yesterday you spoke extensively about the
23 District Military Prosecutor's Office, the contacts you had with them,
24 and co-operation, and how your section filed criminal reports with them.
25 This is a letter of the district military prosecutor, dated the 25th of
1 November, 1993
2 Administration, and it says:
3 "Following your request," number so-and-so, "we submit the
4 following information:
5 "In the period from the 16th of June, 1993, through 24 November
6 1993, the Office of the Prosecutor received 539 reports against members
7 of the MOS as follows:"
8 And then some names are mentioned. I don't believe that it is
9 necessary to mention anybody's name in open session. But take a look at
10 this document, since this is a very relevant period from 16 June
11 until 24 November 1993
12 Prevention Section. Can you remember, based on this document, that these
13 were criminal reports filed by your section?
14 A. On the first two pages of this document, I recognise numerous
15 persons against who we filed criminal requests. That's only about pages
16 1 and 2. And if I were to review the rest, I believe I would find a
17 significant number of people on whom we had criminal files. As far as
18 I can tell, this is in alphabetical order.
19 Q. Yes, it's in alphabetical order, but the alphabet was not fully
20 complied with. But I'm satisfied with your answer anyway. Let's move
22 Mr. Vidovic --
23 JUDGE TRECHSEL: One short question, Witness.
24 Looking at these names in a superficial way, I get the impression
25 that most of them are Muslim names. Am I wrong again?
1 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] You're right, Your Honour.
2 JUDGE TRECHSEL: Thank you.
3 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Witness, I have looked at the
4 list of these 539 -- I believe it's 539 names. Seemingly, the prosecutor
5 withdrew one, Goran Jelavic, number 56. You, as a legal expert, I would
6 like to know whether, in your view, these 539 people fell under the
7 authority of the prosecutor regarding any potential detention.
8 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I don't know under whose authority
9 they were with regard to detention. But as you're asking me about the
10 remit of the Public Prosecutor's Office, if they were at Heliodrom as
11 perpetrators of crimes, then the answer is yes.
12 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] So you're saying that if these
13 539 people were suspected of a criminal offence, in that case they fall
14 under the authority of the prosecutor; is that right?
15 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes.
16 JUDGE TRECHSEL: Witness, in that case, would there not have to
17 be an order of arrest, an arrest warrant, which should ultimately,
18 I think, emanate from a judicial authority?
19 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Could you please repeat? I haven't
20 fully understood the question.
21 JUDGE TRECHSEL: I'm sorry. I was a bit fast.
22 You say they were detained -- yes, detained under the authority
23 of the public prosecutor. My question is: Did the public prosecutor
24 alone have the authority to send people to detention or should there not
25 be an arrest warrant which is issued by a judicial authority; the
1 Military District Court, probably?
2 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Well, this is about the
3 District Military Prosecutor's Office, so we can assume that these
4 were -- these were military persons, military staff, and criminal reports
5 were filed against them for criminal offences. That's the only thing
6 I can tell, and I wouldn't want to speculate about any other aspects.
7 This is only about criminal reports filed.
8 JUDGE TRECHSEL: Exactly, exactly. And to me, there must be a
9 link between a criminal report filed and a title for detention.
10 Normally, in criminal procedure, the fact that you file a criminal report
11 against a suspect is not enough to put him in prison, but maybe it was
12 different under the law applied here. But that I would like to know.
13 Maybe you don't know.
14 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes, but if we take a look at the
15 lists, if we skim through them, at the moment when this letter was being
16 compiled -- or, rather, the fact that it was compiled doesn't prove that
17 these people were all put in detention, because there are names of people
18 here who were not detained. So this is not a list of people who were
19 detained. It's a list of people against whom criminal reports were filed
20 for various offences, criminal offences.
21 JUDGE TRECHSEL: Thank you. That clarifies the matter.
22 MS. NOZICA: [Interpretation]
23 Q. Mr. Vidovic, let us clarify a bit. The first question of
24 Judge Trechsel was whether this is mostly about Muslims. Let us return
25 to page 1. And on page 1, we can read that these are members of the MOS;
1 is that right?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. Well, so there's no doubt about that. And then a criminal report
4 can be filed against a person who you cannot arrest because that
5 person -- you can't get to that person?
6 A. That's what I want to say. And for -- out of respect toward the
7 deceased, the person under number 1 was a member of the ABiH, and a
8 criminal report was filed against him in his absence.
9 Q. Take a look at the names under 35 and 36 on page 2. We don't
10 need to mention the names. Under 35, you see a person against whom a
11 criminal report was filed, and that person is still not arrested; right?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. Under 36, there is a person against whom a criminal report was
14 filed for war crimes, and do you know that he was arrested only recently
15 for crimes committed in Trusina?
16 A. Yes, I learned from the media that this person was arrested for
17 the crimes committed in Trusina and that he is, I believe, in the prison
18 of Sarajevo
19 Q. Let us be completely clear. This is a list of criminal reports,
20 but not a list of detained persons?
21 A. Yes, that's what I said.
22 Q. All right. Mr. Vidovic, in the examination-in-chief you spoke a
23 lot about criminal reports against unknown perpetrators. You said that
24 to you these cases were not closed until you found the perpetrators.
25 Tell me, when a prosecutor received such a report, was he duty-bound to
1 act based on that report against unknown perpetrators?
2 A. Upon reception of a criminal report against an unknown
3 perpetrator, or NN, the public prosecutor was duty-bound to do everything
4 from the domain of that criminal report, send out letters, request
5 information from the authorities in charge, and do everything to identify
6 the perpetrator. I also said yesterday that we, too, in going about our
7 work and working on other cases, found new information that would have to
8 do with another case, that NN case, and it wasn't such a rare occasion.
9 So these NN cases were not closed for us ever.
10 Q. Mr. Vidovic, could you tell the Bench that there was a large
11 number of cases against NN perpetrators?
12 A. Yes, there was a very large number of cases involving NN
14 Q. You explained to the Bench the conditions under which you worked
15 in Mostar in 1993. Let us not repeat all the details. These conditions,
16 many soldiers passing through, coming and going, had that -- did that
17 have a direct impact on your inability to find the perpetrator of a
18 criminal offence within a reasonable time-period?
19 A. Yes. Well, these wartime conditions and our poor technical
20 equipment certainly affected that. But, on the other hand, we had a
21 strong will to work and be efficient, and the result was what you have
23 Q. Mr. Vidovic, I will now ask you, as a citizen of
24 Bosnia-Herzegovina, do you know that at this moment, as we speak, there
25 is a number of criminal offences in your town, Mostar, or in Sarajevo
1 terrorist attacks and the like, in which cases the perpetrators have not
2 been found for years?
3 A. You are completely right. It's just as you said. Even today, a
4 large number of criminal offences still involves unknown perpetrators,
5 not only in Mostar but all over Bosnia and Herzegovina. I can speak
6 about that as a citizen only, because I haven't been with the police for
7 quite some time.
8 Q. Yes, I'm asking you as a citizen, because you also know that a
9 number of international organisations provided assistance to the
10 judiciary and the law enforcement agencies so that now they have modern
11 equipment, and a register of citizens and their IDs, so that even today,
12 under excellent conditions, it still happens that the perpetrators of
13 some serious crimes remain undiscovered for years; is that true?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. Mr. Vidovic, let's now -- well, let's see what happened to cases
16 which you sent to the military prosecutor and on the basis of which
17 criminal procedure was initiated.
18 I'm going to show you three documents now which are going to show
19 that they continued to act in those cases even when the military courts
20 and Military Prosecutor's Offices ceased to function. So look at 5D5032
21 now, please. Have you found the document?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Did you see the document, the minutes, during the proofing
24 session, this record? I'm asking you that because, if need be, we can
25 take a little time to look through it. Do you agree?
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. These are the records written by the Military Court in Mostar,
3 dated the 31st of July, 1995, and it says it has to do with the transfer
4 of cases, the archive and documents, between the Military Court in Mostar
5 and the lower court in Siroki Brijeg.
6 Now, before that, let's establish some significant aspects of
7 this. Although it's clear from count 42 of the indictment, but can you
8 confirm that the Washington Agreement was signed in March?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. Now, Mr. Vidovic, can you also confirm that in the
11 Washington Agreement, which regulated organs within Bosnia-Herzegovina,
12 that the judiciary system was set up, from the Supreme Court of the
13 Federation down to the line to the lower courts; is that right?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. Now, after the signing of the Washington Agreement, in the
16 preamble of this document, the military prosecutor says that he is
17 handing over these cases to the basic court or lower court in
18 Siroki Brijeg because that's the period when the military courts ceased
19 to operate. Now, with this transference to Siroki Brijeg, and as we have
20 three such documents, we'll take a look at what is being handed over.
21 Uncompleted cases, that is number 1. Then we have uncompleted K cases,
22 criminal cases. Then on page 2, completed and archived cases. And then
23 it says "archived K cases," now I'm in 1992, those which had the force of
24 law. And we see, in 1993, that this did exist, but can you confirm that
25 the high prosecutor in Mostar was transferring to the lower court in
1 Siroki Brijeg only those cases according to which the Siroki Brijeg lower
2 court was in charge of?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. Then we come to 1995, 1992, and page 3 says that cases completed
5 but not archived K cases, criminal cases, which means these are ones
6 where the court passed judgement but did not archive them because some
7 procedure was still lacking, and finally we see that Ivan Krstic signed,
8 but the Siroki Brijeg court representative did not sign. And then we
9 have at the bottom that the document was made in three copies. I'm going
10 to show you three such records, and then I'm going to ask you my
12 Look at 5D5024 now, please. The date's the same, and the same
13 signatory on behalf of the Military Court in Mostar, because -- but here
14 the cases are turned over to the Military Court in Capljina; is that
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Now move on to the next document, please, which is probably more
18 interesting, and that is 5D5027. These are the minutes about the
19 transference of cases, the Military Court in Mostar to the basic court or
20 lower court in Mostar. It is being transferred by Ivan Kristic. I think
21 he's Kristic, but it says "Krstic" here, president of the Military Court
22 in Mostar. And let's see what he handed over: Incomplete cases,
23 ongoing. There are none in 1992. In 1993, they were K cases, criminal
24 cases, and here we have a large number of them from 1993 and 1994. On
25 page 2, under "2," we have unfinished investigation cases, KI cases,
1 where investigations were launched. Under "3," we have KI and KV, and
2 then we have completed cases that were archived as well, and then K cases
3 from 1992. And look at that list there, mostly in 1993. We have a long
4 list, and also in 1994. But I'm going to stay with 1993 because you
5 testified here and said that a large number of criminal reports, on the
6 basis of which indictments were raised, that judgements were made in
7 1993, that they were filed in 1993; is that right, Witness?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. Then we come to 1994, and under "3" which is page 4, it says
10 completed or finalised, but not archived K criminal records. And then
11 look at page 5, 1993. We have almost one and a half pages of the
12 criminal cases, ones which you mostly worked on and your department; is
13 that right, Witness?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. Mr. Vidovic, from these records, it follows that the cases that
16 you worked on, and ones in which indictments were raised and judgements
17 made, on the 31st of July, 1995, were being handed over to the Municipal
18 Court in Mostar, Siroki Brijeg, and Capljina for further processing. Is
19 that what one can conclude from these documents?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. Mr. Vidovic, do you know that at these courts, the ones that were
22 established following the Washington Agreement, and later on the
23 Dayton Accords, that prosecutors worked there, and judges, of all
24 ethnicity, both Croats and Bosniaks and Serbs and others? Do you know
25 about that?
1 A. Yes, I do.
2 MS. NOZICA: [Interpretation] I'd like to ask the Trial Chamber if
3 we could move into private session for a few moments, please.
4 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Registrar, please.
5 [Private session]
23 [Open session]
24 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, we're back in open session. Thank
1 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation] Just a moment. There's
2 an error in the transcript. On page 52, line 5, the witness said "he's
3 my neighbour," not "he's my name." It should be "he's a neighbour of
4 mine." That's what the witness said.
5 MS. NOZICA: [Interpretation]
6 Q. Mr. Vidovic, we saw, from the documents that I showed you and the
7 names that we have now recalled of persons either working in the court
8 still or used to work in the court, so some are still working, others
9 have left, that they were Muslims. Now, this means, Mr. Vidovic, that
10 the cases that you transferred -- or, rather, the president of the court
11 in your name transferred, that work was continued on them -- these people
12 could still work on them after the Washington Agreements and
13 Dayton Accords; is that right?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. Now, we're interested in two cantons in particular here, and can
16 you confirm, on the basis of your general knowledge, that the situation
17 was the same in Travnik, in the Cantonal Court of Travnik, Travnik
18 proper, and all the municipal courts that belonged to the Travnik region?
19 Did they also carry on working after Washington and Dayton
20 say, the members of all three nations/ethnicities in the judiciary, and
21 are they still working?
22 A. I think so, yes.
23 Q. Now my final question, Mr. Vidovic. You told us, when asked by
24 Mr. Tomasegovic when she showed you a document, you told us that the
25 person, according to that indictment, to the best of your recollections,
1 is still in prison today and serving the sentence they were sentenced to?
2 A. Who do you mean, Ivan Bakovic, Ruda? Yes, yes, the
3 Tomislavgrad/Mokronoge crime.
4 Q. Thank you for reminding me Mr. Vidovic. I would have to search
5 for the name in my papers. I did make a note of it, but I didn't have it
6 in front of me. Does that mean, Mr. Vidovic, that after the signing of
7 the Washington
8 Bosnia-Herzegovina accepted and took over all the cases and judgements
9 made by judges in the HZ-HB?
10 THE WITNESS: [No interpretation]
11 MS. NOZICA: [Interpretation] Thank you, Mr. Vidovic. I have no
12 further questions.
13 Thank you, Your Honours.
14 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] A follow-up question --
15 MS. NOZICA: [Interpretation] I apologise, Your Honour. I think
16 this question is very important, but the answer wasn't recorded in the
18 Q. Mr. Vidovic, just to avoid any misunderstanding, I'll ask you the
19 question again. I asked you whether the judgements passed by the HZ-HB,
20 after the Washington and Dayton Agreements, were they recognised by
21 Bosnia-Herzegovina and honoured by Bosnia-Herzegovina and the Federation
22 of Bosnia-Herzegovina, and your answer was, Yes? Can you confirm that?
23 A. Yes.
24 MS. NOZICA: [Interpretation] Thank you. I apologise for that,
25 Your Honours.
1 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Mr. Vidovic, regarding the last
2 document, 5D5027, which is a report from the prosecutor, sending all the
3 files to the civilian authority, I have noted, by looking at the year
4 1993, which is the year that is of interest to me, regarding cases that
5 have been filed and completed, as well as cases which have not been
6 completed -- or, rather, cases that have been completed, but
7 unfiled - the former is in paragraph 2 and the latter are in
8 paragraph 3 - all those files have a K letter attached to them. And I
9 added up all these files. In the completed files and filed cases, we
10 have 362, and for the uncompleted cases, or, rather, unfiled, we have 246
11 [as interpreted]. When you add them up, you come to 1.208 K files. So I
12 repeat. For the files of paragraph 2, there are exactly 362. And for
13 the files in paragraph 3, in total we have 846. When we add them up, we
14 have in total 1.208 files. So, Witness, does that mean that during 1993,
15 the military courts have tried 1.208 cases regarding criminal offences?
16 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Your Honour, at the beginning you
17 said that this was a report from the military prosecutor. It is not from
18 the Military Court and the minutes and record. Now, to answer your
19 question, if this has been listed here as it says here, there's only one
20 thing that can mean; that it was done as you have just said. I've never
21 seen this document before. I'm looking at it for the first time now, and
22 it's not really my area, so I can't tell you more than that.
23 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well.
24 MS. NOZICA: [Interpretation] Your Honour, I do apologise.
25 Although I finished, I think it would be a good idea to put another
1 question in relation to the witness's knowledge. I'm still within the
2 limits of my time.
3 Q. Mr. Vidovic, with regard to these cases, were indictments issued
4 and judgements passed in many cases against several persons? We are
5 talking here about actual cases, not persons who were ultimately
6 convicted, not the number of persons who were convicted. Do you know
7 that there were several accused within one case?
8 A. We saw that yesterday, and we see that today. This number does
9 not mean that it has to do with one person only. It has to do with a
10 large number of people.
11 Q. The numbers that were added up by His Honour Judge Antonetti only
12 have to do with Mostar, isn't that right, because he showed you a
13 document where the Military Court is referring cases to the
14 Municipal Court in Mostar?
15 A. Yes, that's right.
16 MS. NOZICA: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honours. I have no
17 further questions.
18 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well.
20 MR. KOVACIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.
21 I would like to ask for the usher's assistance so we could have
22 these documents distributed, please. I'm not sure whether I will
23 actually get to all of these documents. I think I have about 20 minutes,
24 and I have some questions before that, so we'll see what we can do.
25 Cross-examination by Mr. Kovacic:
1 Q. [Interpretation] Good day, Mr. Vidovic.
2 A. Good day.
3 Q. My name is Bozidar Kovacic --
4 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Mr. Kovacic, you have actually
5 18 minutes, not 20.
6 MR. KOVACIC: [Interpretation] Yes, yes. I wanted to give a round
7 figure. I'm not as precise as you are. Thank you.
8 Q. Witness, my name is Bozidar Kovacic, and together with my
9 colleague, Ms. Nika Pinter, I represent General Praljak, so I would like
10 to put a few questions to you. First of all, let me, in part, continue
11 along the lines of the questions previously put by my colleagues.
12 On the basis of everything we've heard, especially during the
13 cross-examination, is it correct that apart from the military police of
14 the HVO that you discussed extensively, and the civilian police in the
15 area of HZ-HB that you also mentioned, there was a police organisation
16 that was a state police organisation with the same task of uncovering
17 perpetrators in that territory in 1992/1993? So my question is: Are you
18 the only two police forces that were in charge of doing that?
19 A. In addition to ourselves, the SIS and the Military Intelligence
20 Service, VOS, also worked on the uncovering of crimes.
21 Q. Very well, thank you. But these two services that you mentioned
22 just now are also organisations that work within the Croatian Community
23 of Herceg-Bosna?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. The state of Bosnia-Herzegovina, or let me say the authorities
1 from Sarajevo
2 police work, either for the military or civilian sector, after the JNA
3 aggression against Bosnia
4 A. As far as Sarajevo
5 Bosnia-Herzegovina, and the establishment of its authority there, I don't
6 have any major knowledge in this regard. I worked as a member of the
8 Q. Witness, please follow my question carefully. In the area where
9 you worked and where you live - this is a very simple question - we've
10 mentioned the civilian and military police, and then you mentioned the
11 SIS, et cetera. Was there any other police organisation, if I can call
12 it that, that Sarajevo
13 organised to prosecute criminals, or are you the only organisation
14 dealing with that?
15 A. That's what I wanted to say by way of a conclusion. I worked in
16 the HVO, and we --
17 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Yes, Mr. Coric.
18 THE ACCUSED CORIC: [Interpretation] I think that with regard to
19 this question, the period of time should be defined, the period defined
20 that it refers to, when the police functioned and which one. The
21 time-period should be specified. One would be up until the 9th of May
22 and, say, another period would be after the 9th of May. And then the
23 witness will be able to answer.
24 MR. KOVACIC: [Interpretation] I would like to thank Mr. Coric for
25 his suggestion. I will get to that, but my first question was whether
1 the state of Bosnia-Herzegovina had ensured any police whatsoever. That
2 is quite clear, and the witness had just started answering that question.
3 And then I'm going to ask whether the situation was the same throughout.
4 Thank you.
5 Q. So, Witness, could you please answer?
6 A. This is the third time that I'm trying to answer.
7 I worked in the military police, and the military police of the
8 HVO, the Crime Department and the Ministry of the Interior were the only
9 two services that, at that period of time, dealt with crime in the zone
10 where I worked and lived.
11 Q. Thank you very much. And just one more question in relation to
12 that so that everyone would be clear on it. Had you not been doing that
13 work - when I say "you," I mean the military police, the civilian police,
14 and these other organs of the HZ-HB that you referred to - would anyone
15 else be there to carry out that work or would there be total chaos and
16 lack of order?
17 A. I can say with certainty that the latter would prevail, total
18 chaos and lack of order, had it not been for us.
19 Q. Thank you very much, Witness. I'm not going to pursue the matter
20 further, because I think it is correct. I'm not interested in my new
21 details. If Mr. Coric would like that to be dealt with, they can do it
22 in redirect.
23 My next question: In addition to all the details that you refer
24 to, in terms of criminal proceedings, the powers of the civilian police,
25 military police, the Prosecutor's Office, the investigating judge, about
1 your own line of responsibility within the HVO, so you spoke with the
2 operative zone and you said that the military police works in battalions,
3 and you told us what your links were with the administration, in addition
4 to that I'm going to put a very simple question to you so that you can
5 tell us something in that regard. It's a hypothetical question.
6 A commander of an HVO brigade commits a crime. Say he kills a
7 person in front of everyone. Who arrests him?
8 A. He is arrested by the brigade military police. That is within
9 their authority.
10 Q. Are you sure that it's the brigade military police, or is it any
11 organ of the military police?
12 A. Every brigade had its own brigade military police.
13 Q. Very well, thank you. Tell me, now -- we are dealing with this
14 hypothetical killing, and it has to be dealt with. An on-site
15 investigation should be carried out, the forensics and so on. Who will
16 do that?
17 A. In that case, it's the Crime Department of the Military Police
18 that gets involved.
19 Q. Correct. And, finally, who is going to file a criminal report
20 with the Prosecutor's Office?
21 A. The Crime Department of the Military Police.
22 Q. Very well, thank you. Tell me -- for a considerable part of the
23 day yesterday and today, you spoke about different documents and your
24 work in this connection. I am actually looking at something you said
25 yesterday. Well, never mind. Let us not go into all this detail. Let's
1 keep it simple.
2 You and your colleague from the crime police, you are walking
3 along a road and you see that a crime was committed. Say somebody is
4 setting a house on fire or someone just killed a person. So I'm talking
5 about serious crimes. At that moment, do you act ex officio or do you
6 need instructions or approval from someone so that you could act?
7 A. We act ex officio within our official duty because that is our
9 Q. Very well. So all the investigations that you carried out and
10 all the criminal reports that you filed, and you -- and we see that you
11 managed to do quite a bit of work there, did you do all of that on the
12 basis of some initiative or some request or some order from the commander
13 of the operative zone?
14 A. As I said yesterday, in order for our work to be carried out at
15 all, we needed to have knowledge of a crime. We received information
16 from citizens, commanders of units, and also, as we've seen, in
17 co-operation with the Ministry of the Interior.
18 Q. Very well, thank you. So can I put it in simpler terms; namely:
19 Information concerning the commission of a crime and information that
20 helped you get to the perpetrator of any crime, you would try to get that
21 from any source?
22 A. That's right.
23 Q. Thank you. Let us now move on to another topic.
24 Yesterday, you said something about contacts with the brigade
25 police. It is on page 78, in line 10 of the transcript. And a few
1 moments ago, you mentioned this example of the arrest of the commander,
2 that it would be the brigade police that would carry out that work. I
3 would now like to ask --
4 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation] Just a moment, please.
5 I'm going to object in advance so that I don't have to be on my feet all
6 the time.
7 Yesterday, in direct examination, I asked the witness whether he
8 was familiar with the establishment of the military police and whether he
9 was familiar with the chain of command in the military police. He
10 explicitly answered that he knew what had to do with his department and
11 how orders were sent within his department. If -- well, the witness said
12 now, as far as the remainder of the establishment of the military police,
13 he is not familiar with that and he doesn't know who issued orders to
14 who. So now I would like to ask that if my colleague wants to deal with
15 that matter, I see that he prepared documents for the brigade military
16 police and other relevant documents, could he please tell me what basis
17 he has for that, how he laid the foundation for that. This has nothing
18 to do with it, and it cannot be aimed at impeaching the witness, because
19 the witness, himself, said at the very outset that he knew nothing about
20 this topic. Thank you.
21 MR. KOVACIC: [Interpretation] May I respond now?
22 I remember full well the answer that my colleague referred to,
23 and I even wrote it down. It was page 11, line 18 yesterday. However,
24 in spite of that answer, yesterday, on page 78, in line 10, the witness
25 said, in response to my colleague's question, that that was a record
1 concerning an on-site investigation that was carried out by the brigade
2 military police from Gornji Vakuf, and he specifically referred to a
3 particular event and what happened. Also, a few moments ago, as you
4 heard, in relation to my hypothetical question as to who would arrest the
5 commander of a brigade if he committed a crime, the witness said the
6 brigade military police. That is why I wish to put a few questions, and
7 then, if necessary, I'm going to put other matters to the witness.
8 Q. So, Witness, as you said yourself yesterday, you are not familiar
9 with the details of the establishment of the military police. But in
10 spite of that, the fact that you had contacts with the platoon of the
11 military police in the brigade is also a fact, isn't it?
12 A. In part, yes.
13 Q. I'm asking you whether you know, and now you can tell me whether
14 you do know or whether you do not know. So do you know that the platoon
15 of the military police that existed within every brigade, and that is
16 referred to in documents, and also people, when they talked about it,
17 they referred to it as the brigade military police, do you know of that
18 platoon having specific tasks, defined tasks, as the platoon within the
20 A. I don't know, and I wouldn't want to go into that, what the
21 platoon of the military police within the brigade did. That was not my
22 own task.
23 Q. Thank you. Nevertheless, since you are a lawyer, since you
24 worked in the military police, and since you had contacts with the
25 brigade military police, I'm going to ask you to look at this first
1 document that I gave you, P04922. In order to provide information to
2 all, may I say that this is already an exhibit.
3 Could you please have a look at the document. Unfortunately, in
4 the date there is no mention to the year. It just says the 10th of
5 September, but we don't know what year. I believe it is from 1993. But
6 if it is from 1992, yet again we're dealing with the same document.
7 I would like to draw your attention to the first sentence in this
8 text, and then I'm going to ask you the following. The first sentence
10 "The delimitation of the field of competence within the military
11 police," I underline that word, "within the military police," "the
12 brigade military police is authorised:"
13 And then the following are enumerated: Number 1, to secure
14 barracks and commands; 2, military transports for the brigade; 3, enter
15 into the front-line in the brigade's zone of responsibility; and, 4, the
16 taking into custody and detention of individuals for the brigade.
17 If you were an officer in the brigade military police, and given
18 your level of training and education, would you understand this
19 definition of what your task actually involved?
20 A. There is no heading, there is no year, this document is lacking,
21 so it looks to me like some kind of an instruction that the
22 Military Police Administration from Ljubuski is providing to a brigade or
23 to all brigades with a view to the better establishment and work of the
24 military police. There is something I have to add to that; namely, that
25 the Military Police Administration gave administrative instructions on
1 several occasions that had to do with the work of the military police.
2 Q. Thank you. That's interesting, but I don't have the luxury of
3 time to carry on with that.
4 Now, you didn't see the title, but it says, "Extract from
5 Instructions on the Work of ..." It does say that. So judging by the
6 style, you gave us the right description. And as everybody can see, it
7 was signed by the chief, Valentin Coric. But let's go back to what we
8 were discussing earlier on.
9 From the tasks -- or, rather, brigade military police platoon
10 described here, there's nothing about the kind of job you did, crime
11 investigation, criminal processing, and so on. So looking at this
12 document, I want to ask you --
13 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation] Objection, Your Honour.
14 The witness has answered the question and said that he doesn't know.
15 Now, what does counsel want? Does he want the witness to read something
16 that we can all read and we all know about or are we turning this witness
17 into an expert, whether military or legal, I don't know; but he's a fact
18 witness, he said what he knows during the examination-in-chief. He said
19 he doesn't know the rules, regulations, and so on, so asking, Do you have
20 the experience that the brigade military police did such and such, did
21 you meet such and such, he can answer that. But to have rules and
22 regulations read out to him, which he knows nothing about, I object to
23 that. There's no sense in that. We can all read it. And having studied
24 law, he worked exclusively as a military policeman for even less than one
25 year, as we can see from his CV, so not before that, nor after that, did
1 he deal in any aspects of the law. He's in the field of catering, and
2 he's being called here as a fact witness to tell us what he knew about
3 the period when he was working as a crime investigation policeman.
4 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] We don't know whether this
5 document is dated 1992 or 1993. I can see that on the list of
6 addressees, there is a 3rd, 6th, 7th and 8th Battalion. This is
7 mentioned. This has also been sent to the 5th Battalion. This has been
8 handwritten. The 3rd, 5th -- every time, I need to look at the
9 transcript. It's difficult. I said 3rd, 5th, 6th, 7th and 8th
11 So, Witness, this document was sent to the 5th Battalion. Were
12 you aware of this document or not?
13 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I'm looking at this document for
14 the first time today, and everything I said about it, I said a moment
15 ago, and I would like to stay with that.
16 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] In the document itself, there's
17 a small sentence which says that the military police is unique and that
18 there is a connection with the battalions and the companies. What do you
19 think of this? It doesn't go beyond your field of competence, does it?
20 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] In the Crime Department, I was also
21 within the Battalion of the Military Police, as a member of the
22 Crime Department.
23 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Mr. Kovacic.
24 MR. KOVACIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.
25 Q. Now, Witness, as we have no date on the document, but bearing in
1 mind what His Honour the Judge has just put to you, and that it was sent
2 to the 3rd, 5th, 7th and 8th Battalion, can you tell us what year it is?
3 What year are we dealing with?
4 A. Well, it was added in handwriting, the names of the battalion,
5 but I don't want to speculate.
6 Q. Witness, I'm not asking you to speculate. All right, I'll ask
7 you the question differently.
8 This is an exhibit already, so we don't need to question the
9 authenticity of it. But it says a 3rd, 5th, 7th and 8th Battalions here.
10 In 1992, were there eight battalions? Just say, Yes, or, No.
11 A. Well, I can't answer that way, because we have the 3rd MP
12 Battalion and 5th Battalion, whereas until the 1st of July, I was in the
13 3rd Battalion and after the 1st of July, I was the 5th Battalion; 1993,
14 that is. The 1st of July, the 3rd MP Battalion became the 5th MP
15 Battalion, so that this addition in handwriting is not clear to me.
16 Q. Well, you either didn't understand my question or you don't want
17 to understand it, but let me go on. The 7th and 8th Battalions -- in
18 1992, were there eight battalions? Let's put it that way.
19 A. Certainly not in 1992.
20 Q. And what about after 1992, when there was a reorganisation; were
21 there eight battalions?
22 A. To the best of my knowledge, yes, there were.
23 Q. All right. We could have settled that a while ago. But let's
24 have a look at one more document now, or, rather, let me go back to my
25 question before my colleague interrupted me. I didn't receive an answer
1 to my question, and the question was this: A MP platoon, as described
2 here in what we read out, it doesn't say anything about work in
3 disciplinary matters, uncovering crimes, and so on, so do you stand by
4 what you said, that the platoon deals with these legal and disciplinary
5 things, offences? So for the crime part, the platoon -- the criminal
6 investigation would ask for your department to do that?
7 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] One moment.
8 MS. NOZICA: [Interpretation] Can you hear me? I have an
10 We're all having trouble with our LiveNote in the courtroom
11 today, and I can't look at the document, open the document. But can we
12 go back to the first page? Can we have the first page on our screens,
13 because in the first paragraph, and I think I know this document well,
14 that instructions are given as to what the brigade police does, which
15 means apprehension and arrest for the brigade, and I think that is
16 clearly stated and answers the question of what counsel is asking the
17 witness now. And that excerpt was quoted by my colleague in the
18 transcript, that that, too, was the work of the brigade police.
19 MR. KOVACIC: [Interpretation] I see no grounds for that
20 intervention, because I read out very carefully all the authority. But
21 I've just asked the witness a different question, and I think, Witness,
22 you answered in the affirmative, that hypothetical question of ours.
23 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] You have no time left. You
24 need to finish.
25 MR. KOVACIC: [Interpretation] Well, I would have finished a long
1 time ago had I not been interrupted that frequently, because I have to go
2 back to the same question. And when you have 18 minutes, that's
3 impossible. But if I may be allowed to complete this question of mine.
4 I don't know whether the witness understood the question, whether I was
5 given an answer, but my question is as follows:
6 Q. Hypothetically speaking, in the hypothetical case, the brigade
7 police, the case when the commander committed a crime, whether he would
8 be arrested by them, so for the more qualified work they would contact
9 you, I mean, the Crime Investigation Department in the battalion; is that
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. So that is the only work in the crime work undertaken by the
13 brigade police, just the arrest, apprehension and arrest; that's all they
14 do; is that correct?
15 A. Well, if we can call it crime work. The brigade military police
16 is duty-bound to secure the crime scene, secure the traces, apprehend and
17 arrest the perpetrator, if they are known, and then inform the
18 Crime Investigation Department, which then continues the work.
19 MR. KOVACIC: Thank you, that's what I wanted to know.
20 Your Honours, that completes my cross-examination.
21 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Witness, I have a follow-up
22 question for you. I'm beginning to see things more clearly, but I would
23 like to see things even more clearly than that by asking you a basic
25 Let me make an assumption. Let's assume that a soldier goes
1 home and discovers that his wife is with a lover. He kills the lover and
2 his wife. Who has authority over this, the civilian prosecutor or the
3 military prosecutor? This is a crime of passion.
4 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Just repeat the beginning of what
5 you said. Is he a soldier, is the person a soldier?
6 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Yes, he is a soldier.
7 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] If the perpetrator of a crime is a
8 soldier, it will be the military prosecutor that has the authority.
9 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Even if this is a crime of
11 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes.
12 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] I see things much more clearly
14 MS. ALABURIC: [Interpretation] Good afternoon, Your Honours and
15 everybody else in the courtroom, and to you, too, Mr. Vidovic.
16 On behalf of the Petkovic Defence, I'm going to ask you a number
17 of questions and ask you to give us some additional explanations. You've
18 told us a great deal, but I think that we can still add something.
19 Cross-examination by Ms. Alaburic:
20 Q. [Interpretation] Today, in response to Mr. Coric's Defence
21 counsel, you spoke about the so-called private prison in Bijelo Polje on
22 page 16 of the transcript today, and you told us that you tried to go
23 there, but you were stopped, and that after that you went back to the
24 operative zone and were given an answer and told that this would come
25 within the authority of the operative zone and that they would check to
1 see what it was all about. Have I interpreted your answer correctly?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. Judge Antonetti then asked you whether you had informed Mr. Coric
4 about that, and you said that you informed the operative zone through the
5 MP Battalion. My question to you is this: Did you, in fact, inform your
6 military police battalion about this prison or the operative zone, as was
7 your first answer?
8 A. It's like this: In the daily reports compiled by the
9 Crime Prevention Department to which I belong, at the end of each day we
10 summarise our report through a daily report and we take it down to the
11 battalion. When I say "take it down," we were in the floor above and
12 they were downstairs. So that report, with all the other documents of
13 the MP Battalion, is then sent to the operative zone and the
14 Military Police Administration.
15 Q. Mr. Vidovic, I'm not asking you about daily reporting now. I
16 want you to tell me specifically. This information about the private
17 prison, did you inform your MP Battalion or the operative zone thereof;
18 you, personally, directly?
19 A. We informed -- I, personally, directly informed, by written
20 report, both the battalion and the operative zone.
21 Q. Tell me, Witness, did you directly send that report of yours to
22 the operative zone?
23 A. As far as I remember, that went through the daily reports.
24 Q. Do you mean to say that the MP Battalion sent these daily reports
25 to the operative zone?
1 A. Yes, that's right.
2 Q. Now, Witness, tell us this: Did you ever see a daily report from
3 the MP Battalion which had written on it that it must be forwarded to and
4 delivered to the operative zone?
5 A. I never saw that because I didn't work in those battalions.
6 Q. Mr. Vidovic, did you ever see a report from the MP Battalion
7 which would have on it a reception stamp of the Operative Zone of
8 South-East Herzegovina
9 A. I don't think so, no.
10 Q. Tell me, Witness, how do you know that the MP Battalion sent its
11 reports to the operative zone at all? Is that something that somebody
12 told you?
13 A. Up until the time I was an operative in the Crime Investigation
14 Department, I would receive that every day through my superior, and I
15 mentioned it being Mr. Marcinko yesterday.
16 Q. I'm not asking you that, Mr. Vidovic. What I'm asking you is
17 this: Do you have direct knowledge or were you told by someone? I don't
18 mind by who. I'm not interested in that.
19 JUDGE TRECHSEL: I'm sorry. For the hundredth time, are you
20 overlapping. You are speaking before the previous speaker has been
21 translated, so you must make a break. Otherwise, things get lost, and
22 time gets lost also.
23 MS. ALABURIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, I have no other way
24 of interrupting an ongoing answer which I wish to interrupt, because
25 every sentence uttered is deducted from my time, whereas I would just
1 need one or two words in answer to my question.
2 Q. Now, Witness, do you have direct knowledge or did somebody tell
3 you that the MP Battalion sends reports to the operative zone?
4 A. I have direct information only when I take over the
5 Crime Department in Mostar and go to attend daily briefings in the
6 MP Battalion in the morning, where we are assigned our daily tasks, and,
7 among others, from the operative zone too.
8 Q. Tell me, Witness, did you ever attend a briefing at the commander
9 of the operative zone's place?
10 A. No.
11 Q. Witness, you told us what the duties of a commander of a military
12 unit were if a soldier belonging to that unit commits a crime. You
13 remember that?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. Now, tell us, please, does the same responsibility hold for the
16 commander of a military police unit? Does he have the same
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. And does the commander of a unit of the civilian police have to
20 act in the same way?
21 A. Probably, yes.
22 Q. Tell me, Witness, do you remember -- in the Law on Criminal
23 Procedure, which was the Yugoslav law and was valid for all the republics
24 in Yugoslavia
25 all state organs must submit criminal reports for crimes that are
1 prosecuted in the line of duty, and that they are to furnish evidence
2 along with those reports, and that they are duty-bound to secure the
3 traces of a crime and cases -- or, rather, objects used in the commission
4 of the crime? Do you remember that provision of the Criminal Code?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. And that's to be found in document 4D1105, Article 148. And I'm
7 saying that for the record.
8 Mr. Vidovic, in your CV you mentioned that sometime in the
9 beginning of November 1993, you were appointed head of department for the
10 crime police in the Military Police Administration; isn't that right?
11 A. A proposal was made to that effect, but I was never appointed.
12 Q. Then I misunderstood your CV. But could you please look at my
13 set of documents now. You should have that binder somewhere. 4D2063 is
14 the first document, 4D2063.
15 Mr. Vidovic, I wasn't shouting at you. I was just repeating the
16 number for the transcript.
17 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Ms. Alaburic, I don't have the
19 MS. ALABURIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, you would have to
20 have that binder because we had it distributed during the break.
21 [In English] Yes, four for Judges, because we delivered to all of
22 them. The witness has.
23 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] I was right to put the
25 MS. ALABURIC: [Interpretation]
1 Q. Witness, please, let's look at this document.
2 I do apologise, Your Honours, but I thought that it had been
3 distributed already.
4 Mr. Vidovic, this is a proposal to appoint an officer in the
5 Military Police Administration. The date is the 11th of November, 1993
6 And under paragraph 10, a proposal is made to appoint Zvonko Vidovic.
7 Witness, is this the proposal that you meant?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. Very well. Could you please look at the next document now,
10 5D4144. Tell me, Witness, can you recognise this document? Do you know
11 what this is?
12 A. This is a document through which I am, in a way, relieved of duty
13 in Mostar. And at a meeting in Ljubusko, I was told that I may be
14 proposed for a new duty, and I was working on a survey of the work of our
16 Q. So that is your document; right?
17 In the introductory part of this document, you say -- again, I
18 have to correct the number of the document. 5D4114, 4114. Yes, now it's
20 So in the introductory part, you say that the military crime
21 police assumed its final form in July 1993, and that it was subdivided
22 into specialised departments and centres, and that it operated throughout
23 the territory of Central Bosnia.
24 Tell us, Witness, was the crime police truly reorganised in July
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Let us please look at the next document, P4544, P4544.
3 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] One moment.
4 Document 5D4114, which stems from you, what drew my attention is
5 this: This is something which could be of interest.
6 THE INTERPRETER: Interpreters like to note that they do not have
7 the document.
8 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] You say that this regards the
9 statistical data, that there were 2.367 criminal reports. This is
10 something you have to compare with the previous question relating to
11 1.208 procedures. This seemingly has to do with armed rebellion,
12 Article 124. Article 119, serves an enemy army. Article 114, attack on
13 the constitutional order. Article 120, aiding the enemy. Are all these
14 articles and all these procedures related to the Muslim soldiers of the
16 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] On the basis of this document, I
17 cannot see that. In such documents, we did not refer to ethnic
18 backgrounds. In criminal reports, there is no reference, and especially
19 not in this kind of document. This is quite simply an analytical review
20 of what we did.
21 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Irrespective of this, did the
22 Serbs or the Croats take part in an armed rebellion, did they attack the
23 constitutional order, did they collaborate with the enemy, or don't you
24 know anything about this?
25 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I can just say that our legal
1 department worked on criminal reports and sent them to the Prosecutor's
2 Office. It is the Military Prosecutor's Office that ultimately qualified
3 the crimes involved.
4 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Witness, I'm trying to
5 understand what this figure means, these 2.367 criminal reports. I'm
6 trying to figure this out, and you aren't able to answer my question,
7 when this document comes from you.
8 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Well, this document was created in
9 my service, and I signed it as the head of the department. A certain
10 number of people worked together with me, so on the basis of this
11 document, I cannot say anything else, I cannot say more than this.
12 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well.
13 MS. ALABURIC: [Interpretation]
14 Q. Mr. Vidovic, let us please look at P4544. This is a decision on
15 call numbers in the Military Police Administration. It was passed on the
16 26th of August, 1993, by the chief. Let us look at number 10. Is that
17 the department that you worked in, Mr. Vidovic?
18 A. Mostar Centre, yes.
19 Q. Mostar Centre, yes. Tell me, it seems to me, on the basis of
20 this document, that the Mostar Centre that you worked in was part of the
21 Crime Military Police Department in the Military Police Administration;
22 is that correct?
23 A. According to this document, yes.
24 Q. If we look at page 2, we will see the 5th Battalion of the
25 Military Police. And here, within the 5th Battalion of the Military
1 Police, there is no reference to your centre; isn't that right?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. Mr. Vidovic, tell us now, if you can -- you said at the very
4 outset that you worked in the 3rd Battalion and later on in the
5 5th Battalion of the Military Police. Can you explain this document to
6 us, then, in view of your claim that you were actually part of the
7 military police of the battalion? Can you explain that?
8 A. I cannot explain that. As I've said already, up until the 1st of
9 July, we were under the 3rd Battalion of the HVO Military Police, and
10 after the 1st of July, the 5th Battalion of the Military Police.
11 Q. Let us look at the next document now.
12 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] We'll look at the document
13 after the break, because it's half past 12.00, and it would be the last
14 break of the day.
15 --- Recess taken at 12.32 p.m.
16 --- On resuming at 12.54 p.m.
17 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] The court is back in session.
18 MS. ALABURIC: [Interpretation]
19 Q. Mr. Vidovic, let us look at the next document, 5D4110, 5D4110.
20 This is an order that is being issued on the 3rd of August, 1993
21 chief of the Military Police Administration in order to improve the work
22 of the military crime police, and it says also that it should be
23 organised down the line, and also in terms of specialised departments as
24 the crime military police is organised.
25 My question for you is as follows: Did you know that the
1 reorganisation of the military police was as described in this document?
2 A. We received this through the Military Police Battalion, the
3 battalion I belonged to, and that's when we first came across this.
4 Q. Tell me, from then on it was no longer called the Department for
5 Combatting Crime, but the military crime police?
6 A. Probably, yes.
7 Q. Now we're going to skip a few documents, and after this tab that
8 you have - that's right - the first document is a report on the work of
9 the HVO HZ-HB for the first half of 1993. In this courtroom,
10 Mr. Vidovic, we did not have many opportunities to discuss the work of
11 the civilian police, and since you did co-operate with the civilian
12 police, I would like to take advantage of your presence here to show
13 Their Honours what it was that the civilian police actually did.
14 So could you please look at page 33. In English, it is page 21.
15 It is the part of the report -- P4699 is the number of the document,
16 4699. So it's part of the HZ-HB report that refers to internal affairs,
17 and A says: "The Police Section," and it describes the situation
18 regarding law and order.
19 My question for you, Mr. Vidovic: To the best of your knowledge,
20 was the civilian police in charge of keeping law and order in the area of
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. A few pages on, 37 in Croatian and 24 in English, there is a
24 reference to the Crime Investigation Section in the Department of the
25 Interior. I'm going to give some of the information provided here
1 briefly. It says a total of 1.438 criminal offences were registered in
2 that period, and 153 various events which did not have a criminal
4 Mr. Vidovic, could you explain this to us: When it says in this
5 kind of report that certain crimes were registered, what does that mean?
6 A. You're referring to the bottom of the page; right?
7 Q. Yes, yes, the Crime Investigation Section. Does that mean that
8 what had happened was recorded, were criminal reports filed? What was
9 done in this regard?
10 A. At any rate, if they mentioned them this way, that means that
11 they recorded them.
12 Q. And then further on it says:
13 "Out of the total number of criminal offences, 1.194 were common
14 criminal offences, 52 were economic crimes, and 192 were crimes of
15 special state concern."
16 Witness, could you please tell us whether you know whether war
17 crimes and terrorism fall under crimes of special state concern?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Now please look at page 40, the end of page 40. In English, it
20 should be page 27, if I'm not mistaken. It says:
21 "Criminal police working on the prevention of crimes of special
22 state concern (war crimes and terrorism) have filed to the competent
23 Military Prosecutor's Offices a total of 192 criminal charges."
24 My question for you, Mr. Vidovic: This may lead us to conclude
25 that the civilian police also filed criminal reports with the Military
1 Prosecutor's Offices?
2 A. You meant the civilian police, rather, didn't you?
3 Q. Yes. I do apologise. I meant the civilian police.
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. Thank you very much for this clarification. And now the next
6 document, P9411, 9411. These are instructions in terms of how the
7 military police is going to act, when the Law on Criminal Procedure is in
8 force, if there is a state of war or an imminent threat of war in the
9 Croatian Community of Herceg-Bosna. My question for you is whether you
10 were aware of these instructions, Mr. Vidovic.
11 A. Not in this way. I've never seen this before.
12 Q. Let us look at the text. Number 2 says that:
13 "The military police is duty-bound to carry out work related to:
14 "1. Protection of life and personal property of people and
16 "2. Prevention and uncovering of criminal offences;
17 "3. Locating and arresting perpetrators of criminal offences;
18 "4. Conducting investigations on the request of the judge of the
19 Military Court and compiling a criminal file."
20 Tell me, is this what you actually did?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Let's look at the next document, P42 --
23 JUDGE TRECHSEL: Ms. Alaburic, could you give a date for this?
24 MS. ALABURIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, unfortunately, I
25 cannot give a date. We can only base ourselves on the fact that there is
1 a reference to the Croatian Community of Herceg-Bosna, so it has to be
2 the period up until August 1993, but there is no date on this document.
3 We tried to establish the date, but we did not succeed in doing that.
4 For that reason, this document had not been admitted into evidence so
6 JUDGE TRECHSEL: Exactly, and it also has no signature.
7 MS. ALABURIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, that's why I'm not
8 going to tender it either.
9 Q. Document P4275, please. This is a record from a working meeting
10 that was held on the 18th of August, 1993, in the premises of the HVO of
11 the HZ-HB in Mostar. The meeting was attended not only by members of the
12 HVO, but others. We see Mr. Covic and Ivica Lucic, and the situation is
13 the situation -- or, rather, the state of law and order in the
14 Croatian Community of Herceg-Bosna.
15 My question, Mr. Vidovic: The HVO, or later on the government,
16 did it meet in Mostar in the second half of 1993?
17 A. As we can see from this document, yes, it did. However, in view
18 of the combat going on, meetings were held in other towns of Herceg-Bosna
19 as well.
20 Q. Tell us, Witness, looking at the list of those present at the
21 meeting, was there somebody there representing the HVO Army?
22 A. I know Valentin Coric, Ivica Lucic, and "P. Zelenika." Perhaps
23 that's the Petar Zelenika, the one-time commander of the HVO of Mostar.
24 Q. Very well. Now, in the second part, it says that on the basis of
25 all information from the Defence Department staff and the staff of the
1 Interior, it was assessed that there was better co-operation and
2 co-ordination between the work of the military and civilian police and
3 that operative plans were compiled to stop the trend of the rising crime
5 While we've still got it on our screens, the answer on page 82,
6 line 9, the witness -- the answer wasn't recorded. He said "P. Zelenika"
7 was Petar Zelenika, who was one-time commander of the HVO in Mostar.
8 That's what the witness said, and it wasn't recorded.
9 Okay. Now, I'm going to read another conclusion from this
10 document under item 4. It says in the sphere of jurisdiction, more
11 stringent measures should be enforced against people committing grievous
12 crimes, such as murder, assault, and so on. And my question for you is:
13 To the best of your knowledge, the organs of power and authority in
14 Herceg-Bosna, did they really do everything they could, given the time
15 and period, to uncover the perpetrators of crimes and to bring them to
16 justice, to punish them for their acts against the law?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. I'm now going to show you two documents, after which I'll be
19 asking you questions, the first of which is P5477. It's a letter from
20 you, Mr. Vidovic, to the head of the Defence Department, dated the 29th
21 of September, 1993.
22 And the following document is 2D974, 2D974, of that same day,
23 which you're sending to the Main Staff of the HVO, to General Zarko Tole.
24 To start off with, if we look at the headings of those documents
25 and try to define where the Mostar Centre is which you headed, tell us,
1 Mr. Vidovic, was your Mostar Centre in the crime investigation military
2 Police in the Military Police Administration or in the 5th Battalion of
3 the Military Police?
4 A. We were still in the 5th Battalion of the Military Police.
5 Q. Can you explain why it doesn't say that in the head of this
7 A. When I said that we were still there, we were physically in the
8 building where the 5th Battalion of the Military Police was located.
9 Q. So you were in the building of the 5th Battalion, but in
10 establishment terms, you were in the Military Police Administration; is
11 that right?
12 A. If that's what it says here, then that's how it was.
13 Q. All right, fine. Tell me now, please, if you look at your stamp
14 there, and on the stamp we can see that it is the Military Police
15 Administration, which means there's no dilemma, in organisational terms,
16 you were an organisational unit within the crime military police within
17 the Military Police Administration; is that right?
18 A. I have to put you right there. All our stamps, which were 22
19 stamps, were stamps of the 5th Battalion. We used all the stamped
20 documents through the Military Police Battalion, we used those stamps
21 sending them outside our department.
22 Q. Very well, thank you. Now, looking at the contents of these
23 documents, in both of them, on page 2, you say:
24 "I would like to ask you the following, and I'd like to quote
25 from the document sent to Bruno Stojic, that at top level a united
1 position be taken with regard to the HVO units not interfering in
2 military or civilian police affairs or in the military or civilian
4 Now I'm going to skip a line, and the next line reads:
5 "At the highest level, to explain to unit commanders and who
6 will, in turn, explain to their junior or senior officers, that within
7 its domain, the police takes orders only from its chiefs."
8 I'll end there. Everybody can read the rest.
9 But tell us, please, Mr. Vidovic, are those really your words
10 sent to the head of the Defence Department?
11 A. This is a text that I compiled, wrote, sent, and signed, and sent
12 it off to several addressees, because at that point in time I had --
13 well, I was experiencing daily problems in my department's work, as can
14 be seen from the rest of the text.
15 Q. Thank you. Now let's look at the next document, which is 5D4115.
16 And let's look at page 3 of that document. It is the minutes from the
17 meeting held on the 21st of July, 1993, in the premises of the military
18 police of the HVO in Mostar, and the representatives of the Internal
19 Affairs Department attended the meeting, as did the Police Administration
20 and the Police Station of Mostar, as well as representatives of the
21 judiciary and the military police Mostar.
22 My first question is this: Yesterday, Mr. Vidovic, and this was
23 recorded on page 69 of the transcript, mentioned a meeting at the
24 Military Police Administration on the 21st of July. Is that the meeting
25 that is mentioned?
1 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation] Objection. The witness
2 did not say meeting at the Military Police Administration. This was in
3 the premises of the HVO of Mostar.
4 MS. ALABURIC: [Interpretation] Yes, I apologise. That's right.
5 I wasn't very precise. No ill intention intended.
6 Q. Tell me, is that the meeting that you mentioned yesterday that
7 took place in July and dealt with crime in Mostar?
8 A. This meeting was initiated by the Ministry of the Interior of
9 Mostar. It was held on the premises of the MP of Mostar, but they were
10 the hosts. And a similar meeting, where we were the hosts, took place
11 five or six days later with the same goals in mind.
12 Q. Very well. I think that was the 26th of July. We'll come to
13 that, but let's look at these minutes first. You -- well, let's see what
14 Mr. Vladimir Primorac, the commander of the Light Assault Battalion of
15 the Military Police, has to say. He said that they were encountering
16 similar problems as those of the civilian police and that they were
17 coming across some independent ATG groups which were not part of the HVO
18 units, and that it is known for certain that they were committing
19 criminal acts.
20 Mr. Vidovic, your personal knowledge, did it indicate the
21 existence of these ATG
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Now let's see what Mr. Penava says. He says:
24 "The perpetrators of crimes are members of ATG groups, and the
25 civilian police feels a certain amount of fear to enter into direct
1 conflict with such persons. I do not know what the problem is and what
2 is restraining the work of the military and civilian police, what's
3 holding them back."
4 Now tell us, Mr. Vidovic, these ATG groups, were they well armed
5 and were they ready to fight the police if the police wanted to arrest
6 them or prevent them in carrying out the crimes they were bent on?
7 A. They were prepared to do that, as you've just said. And the
8 police was afraid of groups like that, especially the civilian police.
9 And in the Mostar area, these groups would clash amongst themselves.
10 Q. As we don't have time to read through all these reports in
11 detail, I'm going to interpret one of the observations made of the
12 civilian and military police. These acts, in the majority of cases, were
13 done for gain, for purposes of gain, and that that's why there was a
14 problem between these groups, who would have control over what territory
15 and reap the most benefit, that is to say, steal as much as possible; was
16 that it, in a nutshell?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. Now, in the conclusions from this meeting, which is on page 5 of
19 the Croatian and the last page of the English text, among those under
20 item 7, it says that, among other things:
21 "The Defence Department must take a stand towards responsibility
22 of the areas. One unit can control the front-line, while the rear is
23 controlled only by the military or civilian police."
24 Tell us, please, Mr. Vidovic, would that, in a relatively
25 well-organised situation, be the rule, that the army is there to fight
1 the enemy up at the front-line and that everything in the rear should be
2 controlled by the military and civilian police forces?
3 A. In the case of Mostar, this could not be applied, because Mostar
4 had a very deep zone behind the front-line, since the front-line
5 stretched through the center of town and quite literally between the
7 Q. All right. Now, tell us, Mr. Vidovic, why, then, at this
8 meeting, which discussed crime in Mostar, why were conclusions of this
9 kind made, the primary conclusions, because it's a conclusion which
10 relates to Mostar? Could you explain how that came about?
11 A. As I said earlier on, the urban area was the defence line.
12 However, Mostar is not such a small town, and throughout the war in
13 Mostar areas in the town existed in which a decision of this type could
14 be implemented.
15 Q. All right. Very well, Mr. Vidovic. Now a few documents about
16 Mostar, itself.
17 JUDGE TRECHSEL: I excuse me. I have a small question about this
19 In the English text - they are not numbered - I think it's the
20 fourth page, there is reference to what you have stated, Mr. Vidovic.
21 And you have said, I quote:
22 "If we, who had been appointed, had finished with collecting
23 inhabitants in the city, it cannot happen that one unit or group is
24 collecting people in the city."
25 Now, I would like you to explain to the Chamber what you refer to
1 by "collecting inhabitants in the city."
2 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Your Honour, this is not the
3 transcript. It's minutes signed by Javorka Ribica [phoen], a person I
4 don't know, and I've never seen this before. That's not what I said.
5 JUDGE TRECHSEL: Thank you.
6 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Witness, while listening to you
7 I was looking at the intervention of the president of the Military Court
8 It's very interesting. It's a president of a military court who takes
9 the floor. I'm not going to go into details, but he talks about crime
10 activities, he talks about Tuta, and so on and so forth, and he talks
11 about the need to make sure that criminals are prosecuted. And then
12 after him, somebody else takes the floor; namely, the military
13 prosecutor, Naden Zuricic [phoen], and then he takes stock of the
14 situation in a similar way. But I see that he talks about accusations
15 against members of Muslim armed forces, but at the same time he doesn't
16 really go into details. And then he says that there is no indictment
17 against criminals of the city of Mostar
18 repression be exerted. So these are those two highly-prominent persons
19 that are touching upon issues that have been touched upon during the
20 whole day. And then you're also going to take the floor and you're going
21 to talk about an American who is going to visit the Heliodrom.
22 Do you recall the intervention of the public prosecutor and the
23 president of the Military Court?
24 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes, I do.
25 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well. When we read the
1 time that they take the floor, we have the feeling that they would like
2 more measures to be taken against those criminals. What's your take on
3 this? Was that really the situation?
4 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] As I've already said, within my
5 remit, as far as the department was able to, the one I worked in, we
6 acted that way, we did do that. Now, of course, from the aspects of the
7 present situation, that was not sufficient.
8 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well. The president is
9 Velimir Maric. He may be a judge, I don't know, but he says something
10 that is rather important. He says that policemen must be the first link
11 when detecting crime, and then there should be the Crime Department, and
12 the third link should be the prosecutor. So these are the three
13 authorities that should play a role. That's according to him. What do
14 you think?
15 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Well, as it says here, he's right.
16 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well.
17 MS. ALABURIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, according to our
18 records, I have 11 minutes left. I was wondering whether I could be
19 given an additional 10 minutes or so if we have time left.
20 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] No. We will finish the hearing
21 with you, and the Prosecutor will start tomorrow, if Mr. Pusic has no
22 questions to ask, of course.
23 MS. ALABURIC: [Interpretation] That's exactly what I meant,
24 Your Honour. If I manage now, within 11 minutes, to succeed in doing
25 what I intended to do, then I'd have about 10 minutes left until the end
1 of today's session. I would appreciate it if it would be --
2 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Perhaps 10 minutes will be
3 taken up with questions from the Bench.
4 MS. ALABURIC: [Interpretation] In that case, Your Honours, I
5 certainly won't have time.
6 Q. Witness, now we are going to reorganise the documents and I'm
7 going to ask you something that is relatively towards the end. But you
8 can concentrate on my questions.
9 Today, the Defence of Mr. Coric put some questions to you about
10 one of your documents, and I'm saying --
11 THE INTERPRETER: Interpreter's note: We can no longer hear
12 Ms. Alaburic. There are other microphones on.
13 MS. ALABURIC: [Interpretation]
14 Q. Document P3238, your report to the Military Police
15 Administration. The date is the 6th of July, 1993, and you mention
16 Colonel Obradovic's order. Do you remember that question? I'm just
17 asking you now whether you remember that answer. Please focus on me and
18 what I'm saying to you, Mr. Vidovic.
19 A. Yes, yes.
20 Q. And you can also rely on e-court. It will only be faster for
22 P3201, could we have that now, please, 3201.
23 My question, Mr. Vidovic, is whether this is
24 Nedjeljko Obradovic's order, the one that your question pertained to?
25 Nedjeljko Obradovic, on the 5th of July, 1993, issues this order not to
1 release anyone from prison without his personal signature, and he is
2 sending that to the wardens of the prisons of Gabela, Dretelj, Heliodrom,
3 and Ljubuski.
4 A. In relation to the date, can you give me the previous document?
5 Q. It's the 6th of July.
6 A. Yes, then that's it.
7 Q. P3220, could we have that document now, please.
8 On the 6th of July, you are asking the Military Police
9 Administration for further instructions in relation to the order of
10 Nedjeljko Obradovic, which is document P3238. So now we have the
11 document in e-court. This is the response: On the 6th of July, 1993,
12 and Nedjeljko Obradovic is herein being told that it is the Military
13 Police Administration that has sole jurisdiction over military or remand
14 prisons, so therefore you're not authorised to issue orders regarding the
15 release of prisoners. Paragraph 2 cancels the order of
16 Nedjeljko Obradovic. Paragraph 3 says that all prisoners who are in
17 military remand prisons and who were captured by the 1st Brigade of the
18 HVO will, if they are released, be released only with the agreement of
19 Nedjeljko Obradovic. And this document was sent to the same detention
20 centres, Gabela, Dretelj, Heliodrom, and Ljubuski.
21 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation] I'm sorry. I think it
22 would be useful, since my learned colleague linked up the two, could we
23 look at the document stamp of 3238 to see when it was received, when this
24 information from Mr. Vidovic was received? I mean, I did not understand
25 what this was supposed to respond to. So if she is saying that this is
1 Mr. Vidovic responding to Mr. Coric, let us look at the stamp and see
2 when it was that Mr. Coric received this information from Mr. Vidovic.
3 MS. ALABURIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, I suggest that my
4 colleague deals with all of this in the redirect, whatever she considers
6 Q. Mr. Vidovic, did you receive this information from the Military
7 Police Administration?
8 A. I found it just now. 3220, that's the number; right?
9 Q. That's right.
10 A. Three things in relation to this sheet of paper.
11 Q. Mr. Vidovic, just tell me, did you receive this information or
12 not? I'm not interested in anything else.
13 A. No.
14 Q. Mr. Vidovic, now I'm going to read what Josip Praljak, a witness
15 here, said in relation to this. 14943 is the transcript page. This is
16 what he said. I shall quote it in English, because the transcript is in
18 [In English] "And I remember, after that, that this order was
19 conveyed to Stanko Bozic, and he was told that it was not meritorious and
20 that we came under the authority -- we, the prison, came under the
21 authority of the military police."
22 [Interpretation] My question for you, Mr. Vidovic, is as follows:
23 Did you personally ever see any order from Nedjeljko Obradovic later that
24 pertained to Heliodrom?
25 A. You'll just have to tell me what "later" refers to.
1 Q. After this date that we are talking about, the 6th of January,
2 19 -- the 6th of July, 1993.
3 A. The 6th of July, 1993, after that? No.
4 Q. Can you repeat your answer?
5 A. No.
6 Q. Now we are going to go back to the subject of Mostar. P1654 is
7 the document I'd like to deal with now. This is a report on the work of
8 the military police and the security situation in the area of Mostar, and
9 the chief of the Military Police Administration sent it to Mate Boban and
10 to the head of the Defence Department on the 12th of March, 1993. And in
11 the first paragraph, it says:
12 "We have received some assessments that the military police of
13 the administration does not have under its control the security situation
14 in the town of Mostar
15 My question, Mr. Vidovic: Did you know of such assessments of
16 the work of the military police in Mostar?
17 A. Could you please repeat the first part of your question?
18 Q. That the assessment was that the military police did not have
19 under its control the security situation in the town of Mostar
20 report from mid-March 1993.
21 MS. TOMASEGOVIC TOMIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, I just wish
22 to intervene because this document is already an exhibit. I think it was
23 brought through documentary evidence. But on the document, it says
24 "1992," and then next to that it is handwritten "1993." And this
25 signature is not Mr. Coric's signature. So perhaps my colleague has some
1 additional knowledge as to whose signature this is and which year this
2 is. Perhaps the witness knows. Perhaps the witness should be asked what
3 year it is.
4 MS. ALABURIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, in 1992 there was no
5 HVO yet, so I believe that this is pure obstruction of my
7 Q. Let us look at the next document, Mr. Vidovic, 5D2113, 2113.
8 This is a report that was signed by the chief of the Military Police
9 Administration. The date is the 4th of June, 1993. And in paragraph 4,
10 it says:
11 "On the 31st of May, 1993, the military police received the order
12 that as of the 1st of June, 1993, it has to place under its absolute
13 control the part of town that was under the control of HVO units. The
14 order was issued because there was a great deal of crime and many
15 apartments were robbed."
16 Mr. Vidovic, were you aware of this task of the military police
17 of the HVO in Mostar?
18 A. No.
19 Q. Now we are going to skip a document, and let us look at document
20 P4058. The first part of the report has to do with the Section for
21 Combatting Crime. And then in the second part, we see the section for
23 My first question, Mr. Vidovic, has to do with the part of the
24 report that is on page 5 of the Mostar report. In English, it is
25 page 13. Roughly around the middle of the page, it says, and I quote:
1 "That is how we encounter organised crime. The perpetrators are
2 groups of armed men who often introduce themselves as members of the
3 military police, members of the so-called ATGs."
4 Tell us, Mr. Vidovic, did you write this part of the report, you
5 or your associates?
6 A. In Croatian, it's page 5, if I understand you correctly. I've
7 just found it, so could you tell me where it is?
8 Q. The middle of the page. It's enough for you to listen to me, and
9 you don't really have to read it word for word. So groups of --
10 A. That is how we encounter -- ah, yes, I see. Could you please
11 repeat your question so I'll answer it then?
12 Q. Did you compile this report, together with your associates?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. On the next page, roughly around the middle of the page - it is
15 14 in English, page 14 in English - certain characteristics of crimes in
16 Mostar are being referred to. Tell us, Mr. Vidovic, did you make an
17 effort to devote particular attention to dealing with crimes when the
18 victims were ethnic Muslims?
19 A. I already said that yesterday. We treated all perpetrators of
20 crimes equally.
21 Q. In this document, among the conclusions, there is a reference
22 under number 6, at the end of the document, that a co-ordinating body
23 should be established to unify the activity of this section of Mostar and
24 the corresponding sections in the Police Administration and police
25 stations in all areas of police activity. Mr. Vidovic, tell us, did you
1 truly make an effort to enhance your work and co-operation with the
2 civilian police?
3 A. As I said, there were several meetings that were held in order to
4 achieve that.
5 Q. Could you please look at the next document, 5D4117. Tell us,
6 Mr. Vidovic, if you know, what kind of a meeting was this and what kind
7 of a record is this?
8 A. I've already said that the hosts were the MUP on one occasion.
9 This time, we are hosting this meeting where the military police and the
10 Crime Department of the MUP are meeting again with the representatives of
11 the judiciary organs and the Prosecutor's Office.
12 Q. Tell us, what is the subject of this meeting?
13 A. The same like at the first meeting; analysing the state of crime
14 in town and proposing measures needed to curb the situation in town.
15 Q. Let us look at the next document, P4111, P4111. It is a record
16 of a working meeting that was held --
17 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Your time is up now, and we
18 will finish with this document. It's just about time to stop anyway.
19 MS. ALABURIC: [Interpretation] Yes. Thank you very much,
20 Your Honour.
21 Q. So this is a record from a work meeting held on the 11th of
22 August, 1993, in Mostar. The topic is the state of law and order in the
23 Croatian Community of Herceg-Bosna. I would like to draw your attention,
24 inter alia, to the conclusion under number 3; namely, that it is
25 particularly necessary to link up and place under one's control various
1 groups that are outside full command control.
2 Tell me, Mr. Vidovic, can you give me a comment on this? Does
3 this have to do with the groups that were outside any kind of control,
4 and that it is really out of avarice that they were committing crimes in
5 the area of Mostar?
6 A. Yes.
7 MS. ALABURIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, according to your
8 instructions, I have concluded my questions.
9 MS. NOZICA: [Interpretation] I apologise, Your Honours. I know
10 that you have questions, but I'm afraid that we are going to finish and
11 I'm now going to say something that I think is very important.
12 We have no transcript from pages 1 through 8 today. I think that
13 this is a technical problem that we have to resolve at this session,
14 because the transcript starts only on page 8. It is important so that we
15 would have the complete statement and testimony of this witness. So I
16 would like that to be dealt with before we adjourn.
17 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] As you know, there is a virus
18 that is having an impact on the entire computer network of the Tribunal,
19 and the technicians are doing their best to try and solve the problem.
20 That said, we were able to follow on LiveNote the transcript page by
21 page, so everyone was able to follow the questions and the answers today.
22 We hope that the technicians will be able to solve this problem.
23 Whatever the case may be, we still have the audio recording.
24 Just to finish off, I would like to ask Mr. Pusic's counsel
25 whether he has any questions.
1 MR. IBRISIMOVIC: [Interpretation] Mr. President, we will give you
2 our answer tomorrow.
3 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] You have all night to think
4 about it.
5 We shall meet again tomorrow. As you know, we shall be sitting
6 in the morning. Thank you.
7 [The witness stands down]
--- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 1.45 p.m.
9 to be reconvened on Wednesday, the 31st day of
10 March, 2010, at 9.00 a.m.